warpedskydiver 0 #1 October 31, 2007 Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians." "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia " "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle." "This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom" "We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!" "Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us." "If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others. "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'." "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted." myrtus.typepad.com/myrtus/2007/10/this-just-in-th.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #2 October 31, 2007 I think that is great. Why can't we have leaders with the same convictions? I am sick of seeing signs in Spanish. If you live here, learn our language. The community colleges offer free classes in most places. The political correctness in this country is sickening. Immigrants, not americans, must adapt. I like that.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #3 October 31, 2007 I think that is a composite of several speeches made at different times in 2005. I wonder how many Aussies generally agree with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #4 October 31, 2007 Yawn. That story was in the Christian Science Monitor well over a year ago.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #5 October 31, 2007 QuoteI think that is a composite of several speeches made at different times in 2005. I wonder how many Aussies generally agree with it. I wonder how many Americans would agree with it if we had a leader say something along those lines? I know I do.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquilax 0 #6 October 31, 2007 QuoteYawn. That story was in the Christian Science Monitor well over a year ago. Does that render the message any less relevant?Ostriches and rheas are the only birds that urinate and defecate separately. They read Parachutist while doing #2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #7 October 31, 2007 I agree with most of what he said when you go to Rome you do as the Romans. It is that simple. I believe he would have done a better job if he would have just said the 2nd half of his speech. As the first half it seems is more said just to piss of Muslims. QuoteA day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said. I also don’t understand what is the Australian life style same as anyone saying American life style. What is the life style? Do they even know or does it differ depending on location and family culture? I also don’t see an issue of anyone following their religion, there is a big difference between practicing and teaching your children your beliefs then trying to make the country a Muslim State. I think it is disrespectful for anyone to tell anyone else that they are not allowed or should not practice what they believe in. And speaking of Australian values wasn’t Australia a penal colony?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #8 October 31, 2007 Yep Hey I think you should be allowed to practice any religion you want, but there are only one set of laws that shall govern. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #9 October 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteYawn. That story was in the Christian Science Monitor well over a year ago. Does that render the message any less relevant? Do you like to have old news regurgitated every two years as if it's hot from the presses?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquilax 0 #10 October 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteYawn. That story was in the Christian Science Monitor well over a year ago. Does that render the message any less relevant? Do you like to have old news regurgitated every two years as if it's hot from the presses? That doesn't answer my original question.Ostriches and rheas are the only birds that urinate and defecate separately. They read Parachutist while doing #2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #11 October 31, 2007 Isn't it wonderful how he's defending the right of his secular nation to promote christian values? Awesome.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquilax 0 #12 October 31, 2007 QuoteIsn't it wonderful how he's defending the right of his secular nation to promote christian values? Awesome. Secular, humanistic values spawned from religious beliefs are not the same as Theocratic rule. Sharia is an ugly thing. The Aussies have every right to express their distaste for these theocratic carpetbaggers.Ostriches and rheas are the only birds that urinate and defecate separately. They read Parachutist while doing #2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #13 October 31, 2007 QuoteYep Hey I think you should be allowed to practice any religion you want, but there are only one set of laws that shall govern. Agreed 100%I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #14 October 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYawn. That story was in the Christian Science Monitor well over a year ago. Does that render the message any less relevant? Do you like to have old news regurgitated every two years as if it's hot from the presses? That doesn't answer my original question. The message is fine but very stale. Now answer my question - do you like having old news regurgitated every couple of years as if it's something new and exciting.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #15 October 31, 2007 QuoteIsn't it wonderful how he's defending the right of his secular nation to promote christian values? Awesome. "Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us." I don't see him promoting Christian values. Merely stating the fact that the majority of the country is Christian. He is not saying that Muslim's can't practice their religion. They can but the fact that they are Muslim does not give them special consideration. If I went to live in a Muslim country you can rest assured I would not be given any special treatment because I am not a Muslim.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquilax 0 #16 October 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYawn. That story was in the Christian Science Monitor well over a year ago. Does that render the message any less relevant? Do you like to have old news regurgitated every two years as if it's hot from the presses? That doesn't answer my original question. The message is fine but very stale. Now answer my question - do you like having old news regurgitated every couple of years as if it's something new and exciting. It doesn't bother me. It's studying recent history. I'm guessing somewhat recent events (e.g. 9/11/01) are being taught in History classes, so this could be seen as a historical issue...?Ostriches and rheas are the only birds that urinate and defecate separately. They read Parachutist while doing #2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #17 October 31, 2007 QuoteIf I went to live in a Muslim country you can rest assured I would not be given any special treatment because I am not a Muslim. Only if you paid the jizwa and became a dhimmi - but even then you wouldn't be equal...just bumped up to a second-class citizen.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #18 October 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYawn. That story was in the Christian Science Monitor well over a year ago. Does that render the message any less relevant? Do you like to have old news regurgitated every two years as if it's hot from the presses? That doesn't answer my original question. The message is fine but very stale. Now answer my question - do you like having old news regurgitated every couple of years as if it's something new and exciting. It doesn't bother me. It's studying recent history. I'm guessing somewhat recent events (e.g. 9/11/01) are being taught in History classes, so this could be seen as a historical issue...? I guess you missed the bit in the URL that said "this-just-in". Now, that doesn't suggest a history lesson to me.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #19 October 31, 2007 Quote Quote If I went to live in a Muslim country you can rest assured I would not be given any special treatment because I am not a Muslim. Only if you paid the jizwa and became a dhimmi - but even then you wouldn't be equal...just bumped up to a second-class citizen. What?????? and what????? In the words of DMX "Here we go again"I know a few woman i would like to give my Jizwa tooI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #20 October 31, 2007 I wonder if he would be willing to run for office here in Canada? My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquilax 0 #21 October 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYawn. That story was in the Christian Science Monitor well over a year ago. Does that render the message any less relevant? Do you like to have old news regurgitated every two years as if it's hot from the presses? That doesn't answer my original question. The message is fine but very stale. Now answer my question - do you like having old news regurgitated every couple of years as if it's something new and exciting. It doesn't bother me. It's studying recent history. I'm guessing somewhat recent events (e.g. 9/11/01) are being taught in History classes, so this could be seen as a historical issue...? I guess you missed the bit in the URL that said "this-just-in". Now, that doesn't suggest a history lesson to me. It looks like the name of the website. Good of you to dismiss the entire article based on the URL/headline, which has naught to do with the content of the article. You've redefined hypertechnical. Perhaps you can debate the content, not the blog heading.Ostriches and rheas are the only birds that urinate and defecate separately. They read Parachutist while doing #2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #22 October 31, 2007 Quote I wonder if he would be willing to run for office here in Canada? As a Canadian born member of a religious minority (atheist) I would take offense at the PM touting Christian values as Canadian values. Oh wait the current one does that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #23 October 31, 2007 Quote Quote Quote I wonder if he would be willing to run for office here in Canada? As a Canadian born member of a religious minority (atheist) I would take offense at the PM touting Christian values as Canadian values. Oh wait the current one does that. They are the values that our country was built on. I am an undecided (i think we are called agnostics) but I do not get upset at the obvious fact that the country was founded on christian principles. History is history and heritage is heritage regardless of current beliefs. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #24 October 31, 2007 Quote It looks like the name of the website. Good of you to dismiss the entire article based on the URL/headline, which has naught to do with the content of the article. You've redefined hypertechnical. Perhaps you can debate the content, not the blog heading. You're obviously a quick study. Welcome to Speaker Corner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #25 October 31, 2007 Quote Quote Isn't it wonderful how he's defending the right of his secular nation to promote christian values? Awesome. Secular, humanistic values spawned from religious beliefs are not the same as Theocratic rule. Sharia is an ugly thing. The Aussies have every right to express their distaste for these theocratic carpetbaggers. Quote It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." These are not secular, humanistic valuesIt may surprise people here that I do think asylum seekere and immigrants who preach hate against their adopted nation and who attempt to incite violence and terrorism, and who preach about overturning democratic rule and setting up a theocratic state can fuck off. Either lock 'em up or send 'em back where they came from, just get the ungrateful welchers out of here. However I think it is extremely arrogant and hypocritical for Howard to be saying on the one hand, "respect our secularism" and on the other hand "We're going to shove christianity at you". Now. Australia is quite a breeding ground for evangelical fundamentalist organisations, many of whom campaign for greater intrusion of christianity into government. How many of them are being told to fuck off to the holy land?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
