Tunnel Time for Correcting Spin

[sraja 0]

Hello

I am an AFF student and have 10 jumps in my log thus far. I repeated AFF 3 once and have repeated AFF 4 thrice (3rd time because I asked the instructor to make me repeat it, I wasnt feeling confident thought I was flying solo for 20 seconds). I still have a problem with spin. My exit is good, my instructor lets me go and I fly stable for about 5-10 seconds and then go into a slow spin. As soon as I start the spin, I tense up and aggrevate the spin. I felt some tunnel time would help me correct it and so I am flying out to Arizona for the tunnel there. I have blocked 15mins for now with a coach and if required I can do another 15. Now for the questions -

1. What should I ask when I go to the tunnel to help me correct my spin?
2. I am planning to take my jump log and videos to the tunnel instructor - do you think he will find them useful?
3. Are there any specific "bad" tunnel habits that I should avoid learning?
4. I have read testimonials of people fixing their problems in the tunnel quite well but anyone fixed their spin specifically?

Thanks for your suggestions

[Reginald 0]

1. tell them what your problem is and they will show you how to fix it.
2. Yes. Very useful
3. At your level no.
4. Yes. Read about Level 4 and down. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=855344;search_string=reginald%20aff%20stories;#855344

Go ahead and reserve the extra 15 minutes of tunnel time now. It’s not that you have to it’s that you will want to!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[popsjumper 2]

Perfect answer!
No other applicants need apply...

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[sraja 0]

Hello Reginald

Thank you for your reply - another question, someone told me yesterday that the tunnel doesnt allow you to arch so it may give you the same feel. Is this true? The tunnel primarily helps in correcting the legs and symmetry but not a poor arch - is what I was told.

[DougH 270]

You can arch in the tunnel. You arch harder you go down, you de arch you shoot up.

I have only done 15 minutes but I didn't notice a problem with being unable to arch.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Reginald 0]

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Hello Reginald

Thank you for your reply - another question, someone told me yesterday that the tunnel doesnt allow you to arch so it may give you the same feel. Is this true? The tunnel primarily helps in correcting the legs and symmetry but not a poor arch - is what I was told.

You were told wrong.

Again, I really suggest you go ahead now and sign up for the extra 15 mintues. You're gonna want it trust me, because flying in the tunnel is sooo cool and you are gong to feel so good about yourself. It is hard to get time if you wait until the last minute!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[live2dive 0]

I agree with Reginald. I was in your shoes 1 week ago. I flew down to Orlando last weekend and had two 15 minute sessions with a coach. Not only can you arch, you get to learn how to improve your arch, if you are a little flat like I was. I even learned what they mean when they tell you to relax. I always just put my arms a little higher and pretended to know what the hell they were talking about. I finally reached that relaxed state in the tunnel and the light came on. The tunnel was worth every penny I spent. I finally passed my D2 jump (level 5) yesterday and I'm confident that I will pass the next two without any problems. I would schedule two 15 minute blocks with the same instructor if possible that way the coach can pick up where he left off.

[Guest]

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Thank you for your reply - another question, someone told me yesterday that the tunnel doesnt allow you to arch so it may give you the same feel.

The tunnel is more or less like the sky (minus you don't have a rig on your back!). Since it'll be your first time in the tunnel, the tunnel rats will adjust the air speed accordingly to what you are doing. I'd practice an AFF jump in it.

When I was on AFF, I was at the tunnel a lot...an hour in fact...and lemme tell ya, it's almost like cheating! But, for your first time in it, I'd try to keep it down to 10 - 15 minutes for your first session, otherwise, you get too tired...then do a next session a few days later. You'll be amazed at your improvement!

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[mr_woosh 0]

go for tunnel! You'll learn sooo much. I went up to level 4 at which point I miserably failed going into slow spin. (I actually think I wouldn't let myself pass level 3 but it just happened ). Instructors suggested taking tunnel after level 3 but I wanted to see how far I can go without it. Anyway, I went for 7.5 minutes the first time, sharing 15 min with my friend, and it was bad... I could not control anything in there. Second time we went, each got 15min and man was it good. I could turn, I could stop, I could go back and forth, I could even control the "altitude" (or rather the rate of fall in the actual dive)! I was able to go precisely for the coach's arms when asked to, before I thought it's something that'd take me tons of time to learn. I learned to relax and feel the air pressure. I am sooo much more confident now! Well, with all that being said I am yet to test it in the actual dive :) Hope I won't forget what I've learned before my next chance to dive.

Good luck!

[azdiver 0]

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1. tell them what your problem is and they will show you how to fix it.
2. Yes. Very useful
3. At your level no.
4. Yes. Read about Level 4 and down. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=855344;search_string=reginald%20aff%20stories;#855344

Go ahead and reserve the extra 15 minutes of tunnel time now. It’s not that you have to it’s that you will want to!

depending on when your going out if you dont go ahead and reserve it now you might end up fly at 1 am tunnel gets booked fast

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[GreenLight 5]

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The tunnel is more or less like the sky

I dissagree... The tunnel is nothing like the sky. The sky doesn't have a guy with a joy stick controling your fall rate. The sky doesn't have walls.

One of our jumpers with very little freefall time went into the tunnel for just a few minutes and it screwed him all up on his fall rate and control. It took us a couple of real skydives to get him back into shape.

I think that if there were no throttle on the air speed it might not hurt jumpers fall rate control but because the driver in our tunnel makes people get big before they can get off the net it just messes them all up. Then they go back into real freefall and can't fly worth a crap.

Maybe it is different in other tunnels but we told our people to stay away from it.

Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

[mr_woosh 0]

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One of our jumpers with very little freefall time went into the tunnel for just a few minutes and it screwed him all up on his fall rate and control. It took us a couple of real skydives to get him back into shape.
Then they go back into real freefall and can't fly worth a crap.

there goes my selfconfidence...

[sraja 0]

Anyway, I thought I'd update everyone on my tunnel time. When I went in for the first 15 mins I had the same problem of spinning, also I was unable to get off the mesh and get some lift. The first 10 mins went in fixing my body posture. The next 5 mins was awesome. I was spinning and controlling my spin. However, I still didnt feel my legs and hence kept backsliding. I booked another 10mins, lucky me that I got it immediately. This time, I was able to control my forward-backward movement as well as my fall rate. I dont know if the tunnel rat gave more thrust but it didnt feel like it. Basically, the more I arched, the lower I came and the more I de-arched more lift I got. It is scary however when you get the lift - this doesnt happen in the sky but I was shit scared the first time I found myself above the coach's head. Tunnel is fun, but I hope I can apply all that I have learnt here in the sky - will update after my next skydive (which is postponed at present due to a bad cold)

Thanks to everyone who provided their inputs, I learnt something from everyone's post.

[azdiver 0]

who was your tunnel rat. i think the tunnels just fun as hell wish i had more money to fly in it.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[goofyjumper 0]

I was a spinner during AFF and the only thing I can say is keep doing it and one day it will just click!

-----------------
I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[billvon 2,435]

>Maybe it is different in other tunnels but we told our people to stay away from it.

Hmm, we've had the opposite experience. Newer jumpers get a tremendous amount out of tunnel flying, especially AFF students with spin problems. I think like anything else it's all about what sort of coaching you're getting. A good coach regulates airspeed to get the effect they want.

It's definitely not the same as the sky, but you can learn a lot that's directly applicable.

[rehmwa 2]

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I dissagree...

IMO - There's a lot wrong in that post and it's predictably the same as so many who have had less than ideal experience with tunnels

1 - the skydiver controls his "fall rate", the guy with the joystick just makes sure the air is going as fast as the skydiver is "choosing" to. For people with good skills, the throttle is there to keep a constant speed by adjusting for external factors like gusts outside the intake, etc. But you can't blame poor flying on the operator. They also have to throttle down for new people if they can't hold position.

2 - The tunnel does have walls, true. This is a good thing as it teaches control that you can't learn in the sky. I've seen incredibly good skydivers with thousands of jumps go into a tunnel and bounce off the walls - they had no idea they were that washy. None of them blamed the tunnel. Instead they fixed their issues in the tunnel and immediately improved a notch in the sky afterwards.

3 - Your example might have been having trouble holding still so they throttled down for his safety. And, if he only went for a 'few minutes' he wasn't likely coached either. Certainly going in for a few minutes wouldn't be enough for him to settle down to allow the throttle back up. A single short visit and no coaching is a guarantee of a bad visit for most skydivers. Hard on the fragile egos

I suspect he came from there and was cupping air in the sky with you guys afterward and needed correction???

Dollars to donuts, once you "got him back into shape" he's likely now falling fast enough, but I bet his legs are busy and the good jumpers find themselves chasing him a lot. But that's where he started anyway - so 'fixed'.

Experienced jumpers don't like the tunnel because they hate to discover that they aren't as talented as they originally thought. Seen it a lot at the tunnel. The better ones suck it up and use it to fly better, others just berate it and bad mouth it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Reginald 0]

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Experienced jumpers don't like the tunnel because they hate to discover that they aren't as talented as they originally thought. Seen it a lot at the tunnel. The better ones suck it up and use it to fly better, others just berate it and bad mouth it.

Amen...

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[rehmwa 2]

We had one skydiver - one of the best skydivers (and person) I know go to a tunnel camp. He has every single rating in the sport and is a pilot and has thousands of jumps. This guy really had an awakening at the tunnel and it wasn't pretty at first.

He thought it was GREAT and huge learning experience.

I thought that was cool. I won't say who it is, but this is someone I hope to emulate in many ways. That example is one of the many reasons I think that way.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Stumpy 256]

I agree with everything you said 100%

The people who seem to have the biggest problems and come out moaning that its "not the same as freefall" and "i didn't learn anything" are always the ones who think they know better than the tunnel rats and/or coaches and experienced flyers.

Fortunately, 99.9% of people, including some of the worlds very best jumpers love it and get a lot out of it.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[jtlmd 0]

Hmmm....not too hard to guess who this mystery person is.

JTL

[sraja 0]

Ok - time for update. I spent this weekend at the dropzone and made 4 jumps. NAILED IT!!! No stability issues, was able to pick a reference heading and stick with it. Made turns in the air with upper and lower body. Made 3 solo exits - and 4 standup landings (with no help over the radio).

So for anyone who has a problem controlling their spin in the air, head to a tunnel preferably a big one run by Skyventure and get atleast 25-30 mins. It helps a lot. Tell them you are an AFF/AFP student and they will instruct you accordingly. A big thanks to everyone who helped by provinding their comments and suggestions here.

[sraja 0]

And I forgot to mention, had my first cutaway. Had a knot in the left brake that refused to come undone. The result was a canopy that was slowly spinning left then as I pulled on the toggle, the tension created by the canopy combined with my pull worsened the knot and it started spinning faster. At 3000' I decided to pull the red handle and before I could put my hand on the silver cutlery skyhook had my reserve over my head. Thanks to Bill Booth, it was an amazing feeling. I kept both handles and we recovered all the gear. Landed a reserve for the first time (standup landing once again). Strangely - this was on my 13th jump!!!