"Your Papers, Please", Ohio Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Receipt at Circuit City

[normiss 643]

they're not listening...and this is why we are suffering as a nation when it comes to our liberites.

they also have no problem with personal searches, dog sniffs when stopped for speeding, allowing the government to monitor their electronic transmissions, and tap their phones...
you'd think a little history would explain it all...

[kallend 1,679]

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Life's not fair, but is it fair that I have to pay higher prices because if you and some others had it your way, anyone could walk out of a store at anytime with anything as long as no one saw them steal it and when questioned tell them to piss the fuck off?

That's not fair.

It's not fair that I have to go to work every day and choose not to risk jail by theiving when so many others can sleep in every day, go down to Circuit City, Wal-mart, etc. steal a bunch of stuff they didn't earn and are not entitled to.

That's the problem with most bar-room lawyers and wannabe-johnny-cochrane constitution thumpers. They like to challenge even reasonable restrictions which benefit us all.

Any attempt to try to curtail behaviour that hurts us all is fear mongered as the first step on a slippery slope to neo-fascism. If people are so upset by this stores policy then shop elsewhere.

I like enforced rules because all too frequently people gain advantage over me by breaking rules that I abide by. Rules (and enforcement of those rules) are designed to try to create fairness. I frequently question the motives of those who challenge rules designed to create fairness.

I've been into a bunch of big box retailers and have yet to see a policy posted in a prominent place laying down conditions for entry. If it's posted in a hidden location it is effectively invalid.

if the store can't trust its cashiers to be honest, then it should fix that problem directly rather than inconveniencing its customers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Zipp0 1]

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Life's not fair, but is it fair that I have to pay higher prices because if you and some others had it your way, anyone could walk out of a store at anytime with anything as long as no one saw them steal it and when questioned tell them to piss the fuck off?

That's not fair.

It's not fair that I have to go to work every day and choose not to risk jail by theiving when so many others can sleep in every day, go down to Circuit City, Wal-mart, etc. steal a bunch of stuff they didn't earn and are not entitled to.

That's the problem with most bar-room lawyers and wannabe-johnny-cochrane constitution thumpers. They like to challenge even reasonable restrictions which benefit us all.

Any attempt to try to curtail behaviour that hurts us all is fear mongered as the first step on a slippery slope to neo-fascism. If people are so upset by this stores policy then shop elsewhere.

I like enforced rules because all too frequently people gain advantage over me by breaking rules that I abide by. Rules (and enforcement of those rules) are designed to try to create fairness. I frequently question the motives of those who challenge rules designed to create fairness.

I frequently question the motives of those who roll over, spread their cheeks and lift their sack at every request without a second thought. If you want to do that, go ahead, but I cherish my rights and will protect them, no matter how small, and no matter as to the convenience of looking the other way.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[jlmiracle 7]

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when the store policy violates our personal rights it is illegal in the us, hence why we do not have to show our receipts...they are simply asking to see them.
IF and WHEN they have probable cause, it's an entirely different game.
What part of this are you people missing????

So in order for a store to protect themselves and not violate your rights, then I guess the best policy for the store to have would be hold everyone on probable cause and get it all worked out later. Just have a store employee say "I saw them pick this up but it wasn't in their shopping cart when they checked out." Its their word against yours. Now you can go to court and sue and all that other bs and waste more time and money, OR just show them your receipt.

Being defiant towards a police officer is probable cause.


j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[kallend 1,679]

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when the store policy violates our personal rights it is illegal in the us, hence why we do not have to show our receipts...they are simply asking to see them.
IF and WHEN they have probable cause, it's an entirely different game.
What part of this are you people missing????

So in order for a store to protect themselves and not violate your rights, then I guess the best policy for the store to have would be hold everyone on probable cause and get it all worked out later. Just have a store employee say "I saw them pick this up but it wasn't in their shopping cart when they checked out." Its their word against yours. Now you can go to court and sue and all that other bs and waste more time and money, OR just show them your receipt.

Being defiant towards a police officer is probable cause.


j

I think you have rolled over. The surprise is that you are so willing to roll over.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Zipp0 1]

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when the store policy violates our personal rights it is illegal in the us, hence why we do not have to show our receipts...they are simply asking to see them.
IF and WHEN they have probable cause, it's an entirely different game.
What part of this are you people missing????

So in order for a store to protect themselves and not violate your rights, then I guess the best policy for the store to have would be hold everyone on probable cause and get it all worked out later. Just have a store employee say "I saw them pick this up but it wasn't in their shopping cart when they checked out." Its their word against yours. Now you can go to court and sue and all that other bs and waste more time and money, OR just show them your receipt.

Being defiant towards a police officer is probable cause.


j

They need to have evidence that you stole. Either an eye witness, or video evidence, or some other proof that would stand up to a jury.

That's the way it works in America, in case you didn't know. We have a 'presumption of innocence' whereby a prosecutor must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt through a preponderance of the evidence to the satisfaction of a jury of your peers.

At the same time, you have a right to unreasonable search, and certain expectations of privacy and personal property rights. They can go ahead and call the cops and take you to trial, but when you bring your receipt as exhibit "A" they are going to look awful foolish.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[jlmiracle 7]

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and this is why we are suffering as a nation when it comes to our liberites.

I'm not suffering...yet. I will be suffering if I have to pay more for your liberties.

***personal searches, dog sniffs when stopped for speeding, allowing the government to monitor their electronic transmissions, and tap their phones. you'd think a little history would explain it all***

Please explain how government wire taps are the same as a store protecting itself from thieves.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jlmiracle 7]

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I think you have rolled over. The surprise is that you are so willing to roll over.

YEP!
j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jlmiracle 7]

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They can go ahead and call the cops and take you to trial, but when you bring your receipt as exhibit "A" they are going to look awful foolish.

and IMO, The "victim" is the one who will look foolish for not just showing the receipt at the time they were asked for it and instead waste time and money of the court. Brilliant approach. That'll show 'em.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[SkyDekker 1,153]

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I have just as much a right as the next guy to shop there

Actually, you have absolutely no right to shop there. You are there by implied invitation, one that can be revoked at any time.

[Zipp0 1]

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I have just as much a right as the next guy to shop there

Actually, you have absolutely no right to shop there. You are there by implied invitation, one that can be revoked at any time.

Just like the next guy. (like I said)

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[normiss 643]

are you French?

[Zipp0 1]

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They can go ahead and call the cops and take you to trial, but when you bring your receipt as exhibit "A" they are going to look awful foolish.

and IMO, The "victim" is the one who will look foolish for not just showing the receipt at the time they were asked for it and instead waste time and money of the court. Brilliant approach. That'll show 'em.

j

If WalMart or other stores want to waste the money, that's OK by me. I'd rather keep my rights and spend a little more for my goods and keep my rights, even if they are covered in lead based paint and tainted with bacteria.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[willard 0]

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Don't like it, maybe you should think about spending some more money and not shopping at big box/discount retailers.

I am sick and fucking tired of hearing that. I have just as much a right as the next guy to shop there, and I have no obligation to sacrifice my rights by doing so. The store has the legal and ethical obligation to operate without violating my rights. If they don't like it, too bad. When there are a million people a day going in and out of the doors, they don't get to choose who to serve.

The ONLY way that store, or any store, can violate your rights is if you let them. You let them by going there. They are a private business that has every right to set policy. Don't like their policy, don't go.
I realize you don't like that, but what about it don't you understand?

They can set all the policy they want, but they still cannot violate my rights. What part of that don't YOU understand?

I will continue to shop where I want, and stand up for my rights whenever I happen to feel violated. That's how I roll. Accept it and move on, as this isn't really a 'change my mind on the issue' type thing.

Yes, they can set all the policy they want.
No, they cannot violate your rights. Unless you let them. Refer back to my previous post.
You can continue to shop where you want, when you want, as long as you abide by the policies of the stores you shop in. Not willing to abide by the rules=don't go there. Simple.

BTW, what right is violated by them insisting to see a receipt?

[Thanatos340 1]

The next guys accepts their terms. If you do not, Stay the fuck out. Your choice. No one is making you shop there. You know the policies. Your choice.

Dont like their policies, Don’t shop there.


This isnt some government conspiracy here trying to take away your rights. It is a corporate (ohhh.. Evil, I know) entity exercising their rights to protect their property.

[jlmiracle 7]

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are you French?

That's a PA! Are you a democrate?

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[SkyDekker 1,153]

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This isnt some government conspiracy here trying to take away your rights. It is a corporate (ohhh.. Evil, I know) entity exercising their rights to protect their property

And to keep their shrinkage to a minimum, allowing them to lower the pricing on their products.

Funny how people want their "rights" to lower pricing, but don't want to help the retailers deliver that lower pricing.

[Zipp0 1]

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The next guys accepts their terms. If you do not, Stay the fuck out. Your choice. No one is making you shop there. You know the policies. Your choice.

Dont like their policies, Don’t shop there.


This isnt some government conspiracy here trying to take away your rights. It is a corporate (ohhh.. Evil, I know) entity exercising their rights to protect their property.

Once paid for, it is MY FUCKING PROPERTY.

And they have no right to search my property. If they want to, check me out before I pay.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Armour666 0]

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Whose rolling over? I'm rolling over because I have nothing to hide j

Das ist sehr gut, meine freunde!

The "nothing to hide" argument has cost people more rights than any other. Phone taps not OK? What are you hiding? Can we searhc your home? No? What are you hiding?

I am not a thief, and I don't need to prove that to anyone. If they have evidence to the contrary, they can play their hand, and I wish them luck.

II totally agree and notice that rights are never taken in one sweeping motion but erode over time as we become comfortable and complacent with each step and change in laws. I have nothing to hide but why should I give some one free reign to intrude in to my life?

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[Zipp0 1]

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Dont like their policies, Don’t shop there.

So if their policy was fucking you in the ass before you leave you would be OK with that? Hey, it's their policy!! Be gentle, please, Mr. Walton!

And don't tell me where to shop. I can shop WHEREVER I WANT and expect not to have my right violated.

If you want to be a sheep. go ahead and "BAAAAA-A-A-A" if you want. I won't be searched by some part time greeter to prove that I am not a crook.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

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And they have no right to search my property. If they want to, check me out before I pay.

They have every right to protect their property. This absolutely no surprise. You Know that you will be asked to show a receipt before leaving the store before you make the purchase.

You know what their terms are.. To get that product at that price, You have to show a receipt at the door.

If you dont like that policy, you are welcome to shop elsewhere. That is the beauty of a free capitalist society.

I like the way Brands Mart handles it. You don’t get your stuff till you are out of the store. You pay and get a receipt to take to the dock where they bring you your stuff and help you load it.

[SkyDekker 1,153]

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If you want to be a sheep. go ahead and "BAAAAA-A-A-A" if you want. I won't be searched by some part time greeter to prove that I am not a crook.

How is showing your receipt equivalent to a search of your person?

How is showing your receipt equivalent to getting fucked in the ass?

hard to have a discussion with some one when they display an attitude like that.

[jlmiracle 7]

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I have nothing to hide but why should I give some one free reign to intrude in to my life?

Checking my receipt isn't an intrusion into my life. Its not like this corporation is asking to send a representative home with me and intrude in my life. They aren't asking to send someone to work with me or even do a back ground check. All they want to do is try to keep costs down for ME the consumer.

Circuit City is not tapping your phones, or searching your luggage, or coming into your house to search that. All they want to do is keep cost down. I don't make enough to cover the cost of thieves and I appreciate what the stores can do to keep costs down.


j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Armour666 0]

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when the store policy violates our personal rights it is illegal in the us, hence why we do not have to show our receipts...they are simply asking to see them.
IF and WHEN they have probable cause, it's an entirely different game.
What part of this are you people missing????

So in order for a store to protect themselves and not violate your rights, then I guess the best policy for the store to have would be hold everyone on probable cause and get it all worked out later. Just have a store employee say "I saw them pick this up but it wasn't in their shopping cart when they checked out." Its their word against yours. Now you can go to court and sue and all that other bs and waste more time and money, OR just show them your receipt.

Being defiant towards a police officer is probable cause.


j

Being defiant is not probable cause He knew his rights and he exercised them!!!!! The officer got PO'ed that they kid just didn't roll over and give in with a request that he did not have to comply with!!! Do you see the problem here? Ho far are you going to go with request from a officer what you are obligated to? Offer to show him the receipt, your bank account activity? a strip search? Search of your house? Where dose it end? He complied with what was required for identifying him self.

It is not guilty till proven innocent YOU do not hold the burden of proof to prove your innocence it's the other way around!!!!
Stop being passive sheep, control and exercise your rights and besides WE ARE THE CUSTOMER!!! They need us not the other way around.

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[billvon 2,473]

>I will be suffering if I have to pay more for your liberties.

We all pay a price for the freedoms we enjoy. Those who would sacrifice their liberties for convenience or security deserve none of those things.