Tiananmen Square - Did it really happen?

[Butters 0]

"Discussion of the crackdown on the 1989 pro-democracy movement is still taboo in China outside of the semiautonomous regions of Hong Kong and Macau, meaning many of China’s younger generation are ignorant of the event."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480406/

Edit: Yes, I know it really happened. The point is that young Americans know it happened but young Chinese don't know it happened.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[BillyVance 34]

Yes it really happened. I remember the day well. Family was at the beach on vacation and we were all watching video that somehow leaked out of the protests on the news.

We may never know just how many were killed. However, there's the famous video clip of a solitary man standing in front of a military tank that was on its way to the square.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[quade 3]

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"Discussion of the crackdown on the 1989 pro-democracy movement is still taboo in China outside of the semiautonomous regions of Hong Kong and Macau, meaning many of China’s younger generation are ignorant of the event."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480406/

For all the faults of "the media", an independant fourth estate is the only entity that can keep a government semi-honest.

The current administration in the US has tried to white wash history several times. For instance, go to www.whitehouse.gov and try to find the President's State of the Union address from 2002 or 2003. The Administration has tried to control history by controlling accesss to things such as flag draped coffins arriving back from Iraq. It also allows their "bulldogs" to continue to repeat lies about the war well after they've been disproven in an effort to confuse people on the subject. Fortunately, we live in a country where it is currently impossible to completely erase history.

Unfortunately, the same can not be said for mainland China. Taiwan, on the other hand, has a very lovely Tiananmen Square museum which I visited several years ago.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 1,640]

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The current administration in the US has tried to white wash hsitory several times. For instance, go to www.whitehouse.gov and try to find the President's State of the Union address from 2002 or 2003.

I WONDER why they would want to do that

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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The current administration in the US has tried to white wash history several times. For instance, go to www.whitehouse.gov and try to find the President's State of the Union address from 2002 or 2003. The Administration has tried to control history by controlling accesss to things such as flag draped coffins arriving back from Iraq. It also allows their "bulldogs" to continue to repeat lies about the war well after they've been disproven in an effort to confuse people on the subject. Fortunately, we live in a country where it is currently impossible to completely erase history.

More paranoia?

I guess you need to actually look, if you want to find it.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020129-11.html

[NCclimber 0]

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Quote

The current administration in the US has tried to white wash hsitory several times. For instance, go to www.whitehouse.gov and try to find the President's State of the Union address from 2002 or 2003.

I WONDER why they would want to do that

I wonder how many people believe such nonsense.

[akarunway 1]

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"Discussion of the crackdown on the 1989 pro-democracy movement is still taboo in China outside of the semiautonomous regions of Hong Kong and Macau, meaning many of China’s younger generation are ignorant of the event."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480406/

For all the faults of "the media", an independant fourth estate is the only entity that can keep a government semi-honest.

The current administration in the US has tried to white wash history several times. For instance, go to www.whitehouse.gov and try to find the President's State of the Union address from 2002 or 2003. The Administration has tried to control history by controlling accesss to things such as flag draped coffins arriving back from Iraq. It also allows their "bulldogs" to continue to repeat lies about the war well after they've been disproven in an effort to confuse people on the subject. Fortunately, we live in a country where it is currently impossible to completely erase history.

Unfortunately, the same can not be said for mainland China. Taiwan, on the other hand, has a very lovely Tiananmen Square museum which I visited several years ago.

I found 2003 HERE> http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/012803-SOTU.asp It's pretty much on the money if you ask me.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[kallend 1,640]

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"Discussion of the crackdown on the 1989 pro-democracy movement is still taboo in China outside of the semiautonomous regions of Hong Kong and Macau, meaning many of China’s younger generation are ignorant of the event."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480406/

For all the faults of "the media", an independant fourth estate is the only entity that can keep a government semi-honest.

The current administration in the US has tried to white wash history several times. For instance, go to www.whitehouse.gov and try to find the President's State of the Union address from 2002 or 2003. The Administration has tried to control history by controlling accesss to things such as flag draped coffins arriving back from Iraq. It also allows their "bulldogs" to continue to repeat lies about the war well after they've been disproven in an effort to confuse people on the subject. Fortunately, we live in a country where it is currently impossible to completely erase history.

Unfortunately, the same can not be said for mainland China. Taiwan, on the other hand, has a very lovely Tiananmen Square museum which I visited several years ago.

I found 2003 HERE> http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/012803-SOTU.asp It's pretty much on the money if you ask me.

You can find it (the REAL one) with Google, but there seem to be are no links to it from the home page.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 3]

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The current administration in the US has tried to white wash history several times. For instance, go to www.whitehouse.gov and try to find the President's State of the Union address from 2002 or 2003. The Administration has tried to control history by controlling accesss to things such as flag draped coffins arriving back from Iraq. It also allows their "bulldogs" to continue to repeat lies about the war well after they've been disproven in an effort to confuse people on the subject. Fortunately, we live in a country where it is currently impossible to completely erase history.

More paranoia?

I guess you need to actually look, if you want to find it.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020129-11.html

Ok, that is interesting.

I will swear to you and others will back me up that this was NOT the case a few months ago when we looked at that time.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[NCclimber 0]

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Ok, that is interesting.

I will swear to you and others will back me up that this was NOT the case a few months ago when we looked at that time.

I remember reading the same thing a few months ago. Not sure if it was on this site or elsewhere.

I found it by going through the homepage then as I did now.

[NCclimber 0]

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You can find it (the REAL one) with Google, but there seem to be are no links to it from the home page.

It seems you are wrong. Maybe you should brush up on your internet site skilz.

[kallend 1,640]

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The current administration in the US has tried to white wash history several times. For instance, go to www.whitehouse.gov and try to find the President's State of the Union address from 2002 or 2003. The Administration has tried to control history by controlling accesss to things such as flag draped coffins arriving back from Iraq. It also allows their "bulldogs" to continue to repeat lies about the war well after they've been disproven in an effort to confuse people on the subject. Fortunately, we live in a country where it is currently impossible to completely erase history.

More paranoia?

I guess you need to actually look, if you want to find it.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020129-11.html

Ok, that is interesting.

I will swear to you and others will back me up that this was NOT the case a few months ago when we looked at that time.

It was missing in 2004 - see this thread.

www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=886677#886677

I can't find any way to it from the whitehouse home page, although it can be found with Google or the site search function. Maybe NCC will show us the links.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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I can't find any way to it from the whitehouse home page, although it can be found with Google. Maybe NCC will show us the links.

Scroll down, looking for "current news" on the left side of the page. Click on it.

Scroll down, looking for "News by date" on the left side of the page. Continue down until you see the year you want. Click on it.

Look for the month you want. Click on it.

Go find the story you want. Click on it.

I can see how you might find this a bit overwhelming.

[kallend 1,640]

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I can't find any way to it from the whitehouse home page, although it can be found with Google. Maybe NCC will show us the links.

Scroll down, looking for "current news" on the left side of the page. Click on it.

Scroll down, looking for "News by date" on the left side of the page. Continue down until you see the year you want. Click on it.

Look for the month you want. Click on it.

Go find the story you want. Click on it.

I can see how you might find this a bit overwhelming.

Thanks. Yes, I never thought to look for 2002 speeches in "Current News". Mea culpa.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 3]

Here's an article from the time period that shows that the Fourth Estate was on it's toes in keeping them honest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9821-2003Dec17?language=printer

I guess The White House decided to fix their historical lapses at some later date.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[NCclimber 0]

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It was missing in 2004 - see this thread.

www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=886677#886677

Then again, two years down the road someone might have used this thread as proof it was missing in 2007.... if I hadn't cleared it up.

Regarding your last post - Clicking on "more news" takes you to the same page - the "news page" - go figure.

[kallend 1,640]

Quote

Here's an article from the time period that shows that the Fourth Estate was on it's toes in keeping them honest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9821-2003Dec17?language=printer

I guess The White House decided to fix their historical lapses at some later date.

It's good to know we weren't imagining things.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Quote

Here's an article from the time period that shows that the Fourth Estate was on it's toes in keeping them honest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9821-2003Dec17?language=printer

I guess The White House decided to fix their historical lapses at some later date.

It's good to know we weren't imagining things.

Only the fabrications about http://www.whitehouse.gov and the President's State of the Union address' from 2002 and 2003.

[Frenchy68 0]

Quote

"Discussion of the crackdown on the 1989 pro-democracy movement is still taboo in China outside of the semiautonomous regions of Hong Kong and Macau, meaning many of China’s younger generation are ignorant of the event."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480406/

Edit: Yes, I know it really happened. The point is that young Americans know it happened but young Chinese don't know it happened.

People who were old enough to be aware of the events of 1989 do know about it (that would make them 30 something today). But it is true that Chinese history books omit the events.
Interestingly enough, it seems that the events of 1989 actually prevented a return to a hard line communist regime, and somewhat allowed to pursue (albeit slower than in the 80's) the liberalization of Chinese society...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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More paranoia?

I guess you need to actually look, if you want to find it.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020129-11.html

Ok, that is interesting.

I will swear to you and others will back me up that this was NOT the case a few months ago when we looked at that time.

The direct links to the speeches were removed the last time I looked....which was back in Jan 07. Google had direct links to them back then as well as they are still on the White House website.

As to the OP...what's that cliche? History is written by the winners. Sad but true

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Butters 0]

I was exercising my right to free speech ... and questioning how we are supposed to stop history from repeating itself when we aren't allowed to know our history.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[stayhigh 2]

so are Japanese, they don't teach correct history to their kids so they don't know shit about WW2 and what they actually did in Korea, China ect...

History is written by winners for sho, if Nazis won WW2, we won't even know the word Jew..

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[willard 0]

As one of my professors put it, "History is not what happened, history is what we THINK happened."
Whether that history is what we observe or are told, whether accurate or not, is what separates reality from illusion.
The son of a friend of mine attended a Catholic school through 8th grade. When he started public high school he had never heard of Pearl Harbor or Normandy. The textbooks they used at his school had no mention of them and only briefly mention anything about WWI or WWII.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The current administration in the US has tried to white wash history several times. For instance, go to www.whitehouse.gov and try to find the President's State of the Union address from 2002 or 2003. The Administration has tried to control history by controlling accesss to things such as flag draped coffins arriving back from Iraq. It also allows their "bulldogs" to continue to repeat lies about the war well after they've been disproven in an effort to confuse people on the subject. Fortunately, we live in a country where it is currently impossible to completely erase history.

More paranoia?

I guess you need to actually look, if you want to find it.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020129-11.html

Ok, that is interesting.

I will swear to you and others will back me up that this was NOT the case a few months ago when we looked at that time.

Is this a joke?

The State of the Union is archived in so many places, both digital and microfilm, that it is ridiculous to believe that it could be hidden.

If it's there now, it seems unlikely that it was diliberate to hide it. More likely an issue of information management. Lots of websites have issues with clutter and organization.

And to compare it to China's handling of Tiananmen - yeah, you guys need to get a new hobby. Here we have spin. There they have bullets, and they're not reluctant to use them.

[dorbie 0]

Well said, it was a foolish claim to make, it was a nationally televised adress available to anyone who cared to look, archived, documented & discussed at length. It's just a shame that the followup tried to further justify such a foolish claim. This is the kind of paranoid nonsense people expect to get away with and still be taken seriously.