Police quotas for ticket writing

[JohnnyD 0]

http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_121234857.html

At least they admit it.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Not surprised at all. However, any time your force an arbitrary metric on an individual to measure their performance, those on the edge will do whatever it takes to meet those numbers.

Example:

I'm fairly certain the new guy in my area is that way. I just found out on Monday he wrote me 4 parking tickets in March that I never saw claiming I was in front of an expired meter when I wasn't. Then this morning he had put another ticket on my car for tow because I hadn't moved it in 7 days! Needless to say I am fucking pissed at this guy. My car is fully legal and was parked DIRECTLY in front of the house it is registered for, the same house it has been registered at for the last 4 years, the same house it has sat in front of during that same period of time. As of this morning I've filed a complaint aginst this officer and contacted my alderman as well.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[BIGUN 1,053]

That's 2.25 tickets every hour for 7 hours ( one hour lunch on an eight hour day). Seems awfully aggressive schedule to find, stop, check, write ticket, hop on scooter.... do it again.

Here's a performance measure for ya... Ask every officer to get 12 community service awards or letters of commendation from citizens per annum.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[dorbie 0]

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Not surprised at all. However, any time your force an arbitrary metric on an individual to measure their performance, those on the edge will do whatever it takes to meet those numbers.

Example:

I'm fairly certain the new guy in my area is that way. I just found out on Monday he wrote me 4 parking tickets in March that I never saw claiming I was in front of an expired meter when I wasn't. Then this morning he had put another ticket on my car for tow because I hadn't moved it in 7 days! Needless to say I am fucking pissed at this guy. My car is fully legal and was parked DIRECTLY in front of the house it is registered for, the same house it has been registered at for the last 4 years, the same house it has sat in front of during that same period of time. As of this morning I've filed a complaint aginst this officer and contacted my alderman as well.

That doesn't sound like a quota, it sounds like a grudge.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

There is obviously a fine line between a quota and performance measurement. Without getting into what the actual number of tickets is, how else would you measure performance of an officer whose primary duty is traffic?

[champu 1]

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That's 2.25 tickets every hour for 7 hours ( one hour lunch on an eight hour day). Seems awfully aggressive schedule to find, stop, check, write ticket, hop on scooter.... do it again.

Probably easier than you might think. Especially for motorcycle police as it's essentially all they do.

The thing I see the most here in Redondo/Manhattan Beach is motorcycle cops following a long group of people turning left at an intersection and pulling over the last 2 or 3 cars as a group and giving them all tickets for squeezing through after the red left-turn arrow* comes up. It wouldn't take long to rack up 16 tickets this way.

(*I've never gotten a ticket for this, but as a side note: I think the red left-turn arrow is the single stupidest traffic signal ever created.)

[JohnnyD 0]

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There is obviously a fine line between a quota and performance measurement. Without getting into what the actual number of tickets is, how else would you measure performance of an officer whose primary duty is traffic?

16 - that is a quota. Writing 16 tickets a shift certainly doesn't make you a good cop and possibly indicates you are a bad one. True measures of performance are peer based and community feedback.

edit: Imagine this - right at the start of your shift, you are called to a nasty fatal accident. Highway blocked off, hazmat clean up, multiple fatalities. Takes a lot of time in the field and who knows how muck paperwork. On top of that you have to go out and bust out 16 traffic tickets, because that is how you are really being judged.

[kelpdiver 2]

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(*I've never gotten a ticket for this, but as a side note: I think the red left-turn arrow is the single stupidest traffic signal ever created.)

Why? Failure to yield is the most common way that a cager takes out a motorcyclist. Lots of car on car collisions as well.

[kelpdiver 2]

California law says you can park in one place for only 72 hours. Doesn't matter if it's in front of your house.

Unless parking is at a premium, it's rarely enforced unless someone complains. Then they put the notice on the car and wait 3 more days.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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That doesn't sound like a quota, it sounds like a grudge.

I made some calls this morning, got some Cop friends of mine to get his name for me. I've never heard of this guy in my life, nor do I know the guy he is currently teamed with. They are at a loss at whats going on.

There may be some law about how long a car can stay in one spot here in Chicago, but I've never heard of it. I've gone out of town for weeks at a time and left my car there without issue in the past. Parking in my area is never an issue either. When I was unemployed I didn't use my car much to save on cash and it sat in the same place for nearly two months during the winter, often covered with snow. So I have no idea what stick is up this guys ass.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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edit: Imagine this - right at the start of your shift, you are called to a nasty fatal accident. Highway blocked off, hazmat clean up, multiple fatalities. Takes a lot of time in the field and who knows how muck paperwork. On top of that you have to go out and bust out 16 traffic tickets, because that is how you are really being judged.

I think it is used as a performance measurement tool, like in many other police departments around the world. hence, if he didn't reach the average number of tickets for that day, he might be questioned. However, since his boss would know that on that day he was tied up with a massive fatal incident, there would be no impact on his performance measurement.

Peer review and community feedback alone are not enough. Plus, Community Feedback in a city of for instance 4 million is not really effective at all....

[JohnnyD 0]

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edit: Imagine this - right at the start of your shift, you are called to a nasty fatal accident. Highway blocked off, hazmat clean up, multiple fatalities. Takes a lot of time in the field and who knows how muck paperwork. On top of that you have to go out and bust out 16 traffic tickets, because that is how you are really being judged.

I think it is used as a performance measurement tool, like in many other police departments around the world.

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Yes, and its a bad one. It has the inherent ability to make good cops look bad and bad cops look good. Performance measurement tools that provide bad data generally lead to irrational decisions by management

Peer review and community feedback alone are not enough. Plus, Community Feedback in a city of for instance 4 million is not really effective at all....

There are not many cities with 4 mil people (@ 550,000 in Denver). Further, you are assigned to a station that covers a smaller portion than the city. People should know who you are. Business owners should know who you are. You are there to protect and serve the law abiding citizens.
The fact that there is not only a quota, but a publicly acknowledged one is a clear sign of leadership problems.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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Yes, and its a bad one. It has the inherent ability to make good cops look bad and bad cops look good. Performance measurement tools that provide bad data generally lead to irrational decisions by management

I would think it is only a part of the performance measurement program and not the only part.

I know that here in Toronto tickets written is part of the performance measurement of uniformed officers on general duties, I don't see what the issue is with that. I would want an officer who only gives warnings and never writes a tickets to be asked why by his superior.

[JohnnyD 0]

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Yes, and its a bad one. It has the inherent ability to make good cops look bad and bad cops look good. Performance measurement tools that provide bad data generally lead to irrational decisions by management

I would think it is only a part of the performance measurement program and not the only part.

I know that here in Toronto tickets written is part of the performance measurement of uniformed officers on general duties, I don't see what the issue is with that. I would want an officer who only gives warnings and never writes a tickets to be asked why by his superior.

I agree that a supervisor worth his weight in piss will know if a cop is out there only writing tickets or never writing tickets and neither extreme is good. However, when you institute a quota, you are dictating the daily performance of your officers. If they miss it one day, they will try to make it up another day. Their focus will turn from being a good cop to writing an average of 16 per shift = good cop = raise & promotion.
Performance goals such as these are counter productive and, again, a clear indication of a failure in leadership.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

It depends on what has shown tobe the average over time for that department, which is missing from the story. Without that, it really is hard to say anything about the actual number of tickets stated.

[JohnnyD 0]

I agree that a performance measurement for an officer should be that he/she issues a _reasonable_ amount of citations. That, of course is a subjective measurement that seeks the middle road between never writing and doing nothing but writing. When you put a number on it, it is no longer subjective - its a quota.

[Zipp0 1]

It sounds to me like if everyone ever written a ticket took it to court instead of paying it, the cops would be in court every day defending their actions, and would not have time to write any more tickets.

So take their asses to court.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[kelpdiver 2]

costs me a hell of a lot more in unbilled hours to appear.

[champu 1]

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(*I've never gotten a ticket for this, but as a side note: I think the red left-turn arrow is the single stupidest traffic signal ever created.)

Why? Failure to yield is the most common way that a cager takes out a motorcyclist. Lots of car on car collisions as well.

I can understand why at certain intersections with poor visibility or other special circumstances you would, much like "no turn on red" signs, want to have them, but they've become standard operating procedure for intersections in a lot of places, and its a terribly inefficient way of handling traffic.

I constantly pull up to green lights/red arrows at intersections where these types of signals don't belong, usually a medium to low traffic street intersecting with a very low traffic side street. I wait there as I watch multiple natural breaks in traffic go by, and after the light decides I've waited long enough, a dozen or so cars are stopped, and they have to wait for me to turn.

These lights only tell you to stop in two possible situations: 1) When you're already required to stop anyway, and 2) when there's no good reason for it.

[kelpdiver 2]

sounds like a problem in utilization. You said they were one of the stupidest things ever. Huge difference.

[akarunway 1]

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California law says you can park in one place for only 72 hours. Doesn't matter if it's in front of your house.

Unless parking is at a premium, it's rarely enforced unless someone complains. Then they put the notice on the car and wait 3 more days.

So I would presume they have to watch your vehicle for the whole 72 hrs. to make sure you didn't run to the store in that time right?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[kelpdiver 2]

fair question to ask. Could chalk the car. As I alluded, usually enforcement happens on cars that have been still so long the dust buildup is rather obvious.

[champu 1]

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sounds like a problem in utilization. You said they were one of the stupidest things ever. Huge difference.

I generally don't like getting hung up on a point like this having bit by bit arguments, and I'm making this one particularly arduous now, so for that I apologize, however...

The last statement in my previous post regarding the red left turn arrows only stopping you when you would be required to stop anyway or when you shouldn't have to stop applies to all instances of their use, not just to the common example I laid out. Still, perhaps I should revise my statement to be, "I find the vast majority of instances where they are used to be stupid, and the remainder to be condescending and unnecessary."

Of course, "If everyone was as good a driver as I was..." (tm)

[SuperKat 0]

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At least they admit it.

They didn't admit it. He's calling it a measure of performance.

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For about two dozen motorcycle officers, the order is to write 16 tickets for an eight hour shift. Captain Eric Rubin, commander of 79 officers in the Traffic Operations Bureau, contends it's "not a quota," but he calls it a "measure of performance" for officers whose primary duty is to enforce traffic laws. "It's a goal we are striving for," he said.

16 tickets sounds like nothing compared to what the NYC Department of Traffic have to write. Their activity is to write 40 summonses per day.

Just because cops have to generate activity per month does not make them bad guys. This is a job. They're required to generate activity. They only do as they are told. If this upsets you, you should take it up with your mayor. Or you can find out who in the city/town office or state office sets the goal for ticket revenue.

The other side of the coin is these traffic summonses also help to cut down on drivers who talk on their cell phone with no hands free head set, drivers who drive over the speed limit and drunk drivers. As much as you probably don't believe it but it creates awareness for those that don't obey traffic laws. What does that help do for you? It probably saves lives and prevents future car accidents. Not too many people see that big picture.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[akarunway 1]

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At least they admit it.

They didn't admit it. He's calling it a measure of performance.

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For about two dozen motorcycle officers, the order is to write 16 tickets for an eight hour shift. Captain Eric Rubin, commander of 79 officers in the Traffic Operations Bureau, contends it's "not a quota," but he calls it a "measure of performance" for officers whose primary duty is to enforce traffic laws. "It's a goal we are striving for," he said.

16 tickets sounds like nothing compared to what the NYC Department of Traffic have to write. Their activity is to write 40 summonses per day.

Just because cops have to generate activity per month does not make them bad guys. This is a job. They're required to generate activity. They only do as they are told. If this upsets you, you should take it up with your mayor. Or you can find out who in the city/town office or state office sets the goal for ticket revenue.

The other side of the coin is these traffic summonses also help to cut down on drivers who talk on their cell phone with no hands free head set, drivers who drive over the speed limit and drunk drivers. As much as you probably don't believe it but it creates awareness for those that don't obey traffic laws. What does that help do for you? It probably saves lives and prevents future car accidents. Not too many people see that big picture.

How bout all the cops I'm behind that whip in and out of traffic, speed, no turn signals etc. Who polices them? And on the red light subject. Last job in the mornings I'd drive a strech of say 7-8 miles at 5 in the morning. Outta 25+ signals I'd hit 80% red on any givin morning w/ no cars at all coming the other direction at a min. or two 2 per sit. Drive to work was 28 miles. Took me 1 hr every day even w/ the backroads in the desert where I could haulass. I quit that job cause of that bullshit.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.