livendive 8 #76 April 12, 2007 QuoteHave you ever gone on a ride-along with police? Have you ever signed up for a 'community academy' session? Do you have any concept of how police use force? Do you understand the force continuum? QuoteUnfortunately, this class of civil servant is not held as accountable as most other forms, and their discipline, when existent, is very rarely appropriate. You've got to be kidding me. You think your standard issue paper pusher or politician is held to any accountability whatsoever? Have you not been paying attention for the last hundred years or so? And as for police officers not being held accountable, not being disciplined... Pull your head out of the sand, or wherever it is you've stuffed it, and do a little homework on the subject, preferably beyond the five o'clock news. If you have any experience whatsoever with actual police work and police officers, beyond the news and the movies, you'd know how ass-backwards your statement was. If your average paper pusher commits assault, or manslaughter, he'll be prosecuted accordingly. His status as a government employee will buy him no leeway. If I were to shoot someone who was reaching for his wallet, I'd be prosecuted accordingly. If I were to kick the shit out of a guy and repeatedly tase him when he was no threat to me, I'd go to jail for assault, or maybe attempted murder. A cop doing these things might be suspended, or god forbid, fired. In almost every case, he won't be prosecuted like a regular member of society. In my opinion, crimes committed while acting as (or pretending to be) a police officer should be punished more harshly than crimes without that factor, because our justice system is based on first trusting them. To give them that advantage up front AND give them leeway after the fact is just wrong. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #77 April 12, 2007 QuoteIf I were to kick the shit out of a guy and repeatedly tase him when he was no threat to me, I'd go to jail for assault, or maybe attempted murder. A cop doing these things might be suspended, or god forbid, fired. In almost every case, he won't be prosecuted like a regular member of society. So cops are like pro athletes, then, mainly soccer and hockey players. Just with lower salaries ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #78 April 12, 2007 Your average paper pusher does not face the same risk of political arrest and double jeopardy. Careful what you wish for, you wouldn't enjoy a nation without cops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #79 April 12, 2007 QuoteQuote>Beats having to repeat yourself indefinitely. No, it really doesn't. I don't know of anyone who has died from talking too much. I suppose I would not die from repeating myself, but I would also not die from tasering the guy. And the second option would be much more expedient. Students were studying (or trying to) and he was disrupting everything so, why let everything grind to a halt because he wants to use the library as his personal confronation space. Imagine if you had a major exam the next day and the library was your only study space, but you had to try and study in a coffe shop for the rest of the night because he was holding his personal protest in the library. They resolved the situation much quicker that way and allowed everyone to get back to studying for exams. It's not like they beat the guy senseless with their clubs. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #80 April 12, 2007 Well, it's like this, a couple of cops should be able to handle this little bitch without going to the taser and in my opinion and uneducated understanding the taser is to be used in situations in which the cop would otherwise need to use deadly force or where harm could come to the officer, not for cattle prodding whinney college kids around campus. But seriously that kid was being a bitch, I'm surprised he didn't say he was going to tell his Dad on them."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #81 April 12, 2007 go to www.educate-yourself.org and check out how many people have been killed by 'the police' using a taser. they are lethal, deny it if you want.we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #82 April 12, 2007 >Students were studying (or trying to) and he was disrupting everything >so, why let everything grind to a halt because he wants to use the library >as his personal confronation space. Disruption in a library is better than a death due to usage of a taser. Even if he was very naughty and disobeyed an order to shush. >It's not like they beat the guy senseless with their clubs. And that would be _worse_? Dead is dead, and beating someone with a club is less likely to kill them than giving them 50 kilovolts through their hearts. And if tasering is OK, why isn't beating OK? All your rationales above apply - he was disruptive, people were studying for tests etc. And broken jaws are easier to fix than hearts in v-fib. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #83 April 12, 2007 I realize there are risks but he seemed like a very healthy strong guy. I can't imagine that the probability of death is very high in a case like that. Again he had the ability to put an end to the tasering at any time. He just needed to cooperate. I don't meen to sound cold but it just seems that people always disrupt the regular flow of society and the activities of people who have actual work to do simply because they have nothing better to do than make a scene. If he was restrained in cuffs and unable to move while they jolted him endlessly I would object but this did not seem to be that big of a deal. Physical discomfort being used as a tool for compliance by cops is pretty standard. The person being persuaded to comply simply resists until he decides that he no longer wishes to deal with the increasing discomfort. If I had an exam the next day and there was no-where else to study I would be furious if they allowed that scene to play out for hours on end rather than ending it as quickly as possible. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #84 April 13, 2007 Quote Physical discomfort being used as a tool for compliance by cops is pretty standard. Tasering someone is not physical discomfort. It's being shot with a less lethal (note: not non-lethal) weapon. Two completely different things. The fact that the cops were too lazy to cuff him and pick him up doesn't justify the use of potentially lethal force. Quote The person being persuaded to comply simply resists until he decides that he no longer wishes to deal with the increasing discomfort. Increasing discomfort? I'm sure shooting him would be uncomfortable. Is it ok to shoot someone because they won't do what you tell them to? Since when did potentially lethal weapons become an option to persuade someone to do something? Quote If I had an exam the next day and there was no-where else to study I would be furious if they allowed that scene to play out for hours on end rather than ending it as quickly as possible. If they had cuffed him and dragged him out it would have been over quicker. If they had shot him it would have been too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #85 April 13, 2007 QuoteIPhysical discomfort being used as a tool for compliance by cops is pretty standard. The person being persuaded to comply simply resists until he decides that he no longer wishes to deal with the increasing discomfort. You mean like fire hoses and tear gas on peaceful civil right marches in the 60's? That went over well. What other discomfort, besides the taser, do the police use? A baton? That is well beyond 'discomfort.' Do they eat lots of garlic and then get in your face? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #86 April 13, 2007 Quote What other discomfort, besides the taser, do the police use? A baton? arm bar. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #87 April 13, 2007 QuoteQuote What other discomfort, besides the taser, do the police use? A baton? arm bar. I'd just do a reverse and a half-nelson dump from neutral on his punk ass. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #88 April 13, 2007 QuoteI'd just do a reverse and a half-nelson dump from neutral on his punk ass. And promptly find yourself the focus of a pig-pile and being charged for assaulting an officer in the performance of his duties... I love it when people talk about how bad-ass they'd be...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #89 April 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'd just do a reverse and a half-nelson dump from neutral on his punk ass. And promptly find yourself the focus of a pig-pile and being charged for assaulting an officer in the performance of his duties... I love it when people talk about how bad-ass they'd be... There is a lengthy legal precedent, going back to 1789, whereby a defendant can claim self-defense against an agent of the government, if that act is deemed a defense against tyranny, a defense of liberty. But then again, Will still went to jail. It was a joke, by the way. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #90 April 13, 2007 QuoteThe fact that the cops were too lazy to cuff him and pick him up doesn't justify the use of potentially lethal force. Looks like they were trying to restrain him via normal means for some time and grew tired of it. Quote Is it ok to shoot someone because they won't do what you tell them to? Do I really need to explain that one to you. QuoteIf they had cuffed him and dragged him out it would have been over quicker. Doubt it. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #91 April 13, 2007 QuoteYou mean like fire hoses and tear gas on peaceful civil right marches in the 60's? That went over well. Wasn't designed as a P.R. tool QuoteWhat other discomfort, besides the taser, do the police use? A baton? Sometimes if neccessary QuoteThat is well beyond 'discomfort.' I used that term loosely. QuoteDo they eat lots of garlic and then get in your face? Curry My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
