Is the British Military Trained by the French?

[dorbie 0]

I can't disagree with anything you wrote John, you ask very good questions.

[dorbie 0]

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I think you've pretty much answered your own questions.

An old workmate had this shocked comment to make over a week ago regarding the matter; "Fucking hell, if it'd been us the headlines would be saying Iranians Massacred."

Training and attitude. Maybe you and he can team up in a dingy out there and we'll get a do-over.

[Stumpy 256]

Sad when people think killing a bunch of people is better than using diplomacy and losing a little pride. Especially when they aren't "the enemy". yet.

Oh but its ok because they are foreign.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Scoop 0]

My next door neighbour isn't my "enemy" but if they tried to steal my car I'd still kick their ass

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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My next door neighbour isn't my "enemy" but if they tried to steal my car I'd still kick their ass

Of course you would, specially if they had 20 automatic rifles aimed at you while they were stealing it. You'd just go all Chuck Norris on them....

Always fun to see all the chest beating in threads like this.

JR, you did raise some excellent questions. I doubt they will ever truly get answered.

[Scoop 0]

Its not chest beating, it demonstrates someone doesnt have to be designated a threat to be one, as the whole scenario has proved.

[Stumpy 256]

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Always fun to see all the chest beating in threads like this.

Agreed - the "if it was me" thing gets hilarious. Most of the services SERE trained people get very quiet at times like this because they really know what its about.
I also agree with most of JR's questions, however the one point is that they are not yet the enemy, so the whole diplomacy thing needs to be really delicate. I am glad they didn't start another war with another country.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Scoop 0]

The funny thing is if they had been executed noone would be saying how they did the right thing. It would be outrage that such a thing could be allowed to happen and that they didnt even put up a fight.

I am fuming that the whole snatch was able to happen. It shouldn't happen, with whatever vessel was coordinating operations in the area and other support, surely!? When they sensed something was up why wasn't support provided or why didnt they withdraw? I thought a Lynx helicopter was present. That should have issued a challenge to the approaching craft or if neccesary used some level of force. Its purpose is to destroy surface vessels!

[Stumpy 256]

Good job your not the OIC then. if you had been we would likely now be at war and a LOT of people would be getting killed. I can see how that would be better.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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I am fuming that the whole snatch was able to happen. It shouldn't happen, with whatever vessel was coordinating operations in the area and other support, surely!? When they sensed something was up why wasn't support provided or why didnt they withdraw? I thought a Lynx helicopter was present. That should have issued a challenge to the approaching craft or if neccesary used some level of force. Its purpose is to destroy surface vessels!

And I am sure that all these things are being reviewed. Kepp in mind though, that it was reported that Iranian ships were very frequently within very close proximity of the allied ships. They got used to eachothers presence and since they are not at war with eachother, an incident like this was not something on the "radar screen" if you will. Now, this is not an excuse for, but rather a possible explanation for why things went the way they did.

[smooman 0]

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Let me say the name, rank, serial # is more hollywood than fact. It is resist as long as possible. As I said earlier in a different thread. Intel grows stale quickly. The longer you can resist the better, but the name, rank, serial # is not taught by SF (or wasn't in the late 70s anyway)

I have completed level C SERE school through USAJFKSWCS, so allow me to clarify:

although i cannot say much (a lot is classified) as far as the "big three" go, it is all you are required to give as a POW. The problem is you can be a prisoner of war, a prisoner in other-than-wartime-conditions, or a hostage (being captured by a terrorist group, non military/gov't group, etc).
The course motto was "Survive and return home with honor"

COL Nick Rowe, the founder of SERE and a POW with the VC for 5 years understood this. In his book "Five Years to Freedom" he explains how one of his mates that was captured with him, Captain Rocky Versace, played the hard ass and only gave the big3 and NOTHING else. He was executed about two years into captivity.

Although i cannot delve into resistance techniques, i can assure you, that "only your name rank and serial" is not what is taught in this course.

What sets level C apart from level A and B is the Resistance Training Lab (RTL), basically a 4 day mock POW camp. We are captured, physically and mentally assaulted, and brought to the lowest places of the human psyche. During this time is when you painfully realize that reciting the "big three" will not suffice and that we must fall back on the techniques taught to us.
Read any number of books authored by POW's and you wont see the hollywood hero spitting in the face of his captors and saying, "SGT John Duffy, 123-45-6789. You want anything else, you'll just have to kill me". Rather you will see men and women striving to survive both physically and mentally all the while standing on their honor.
The POW's we got to meet and talk to after being "liberated" from the RTL and debriefed were among the most honorable and upstanding men i will likely ever meet.
Being a captive at the enemies hand is quite possibly the darkest place a human can go, and those men and women survive on their hope and their honor.

It is only after we have lost everything that we are free to do anything

[vortexring 0]

What a complete and entire load of bollox - your either American, Swiss or ..... I know, it's not quite worth saying what you are is it?

All this SERE knowledge amongst posters - it has no relevance, other than to demostrate how nice it would be to have our craphat units such as the Navy and SurrenderCabbage heads SERE trained. Obviously not fucking worth it is it?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

You've had a lot to say on the matter - any professional tips? Any experience on such incidents to divulge?

C'mon - you must have! You bring into context valour and honour. Charecteristics you obviously don't have.

You craphat.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Duckwater 0]

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You've had a lot to say on the matter - any professional tips? Any experience on such incidents to divulge?

C'mon - you must have! You bring into context valour and honour. Charecteristics you obviously don't have.

You craphat.

#1 - I came back and said that I was perhaps too quick to judge, that the command structure might be to blame. The question of their ease of a false confession is still a very valid one.

#2 - I havent had a lot to say about it. How many posts do you have versus me?

#3 - You dont know me or have any observed situations, so your claim that I dont have honor or valor is baseless.I questioned someone elses based on actions.

#4 - When these assholes sold their story, as their commrades were being killed in Iraq, I lost ALL respect for them.

#5 - I thought of calling you a name, or challenge you to a fight, or otherwise return the personal attack but, being that we all agreed not to do that by posting here, Ill maintain my honor with the mods......
What happened to yours?

Have a nice day.

p.s. ANYONE on the list that really knows me will prob agree that I would have been a total smartass to the Iraninas, right up to the point they went to work on my nails, which is what I have maintained all along.

[vortexring 0]

Your last sentance should really say something along the lines of; 'anyone knowing me will know I'm talking complete BS.'

Have a nice day in your nice safe life yourself.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Skyrad 0]

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What a complete and entire load of bollox - your either American, Swiss or ..... I know, it's not quite worth saying what you are is it?

All this SERE knowledge amongst posters - it has no relevance, other than to demostrate how nice it would be to have our craphat units such as the Navy and SurrenderCabbage heads SERE trained. Obviously not fucking worth it is it?

LMAO But what do you really think?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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I thought of calling you a name, or challenge you to a fight,

ROFLMAO

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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p.s. ANYONE on the list that really knows me will prob agree that I would have been a total smartass to the Iraninas, right up to the point they went to work on my nails, which is what I have maintained all along.

Hardly clever. But there is a line between doing your job and staying alive and auditioning for a spot as a Good Morning presenter.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[smooman 0]

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All this SERE knowledge amongst posters - it has no relevance

spoken like a true nimrod. Probably never heard of Micheal Durant have you? you should have....ask him if SERE was irrelevent during his time in captivity

or a better bet would be Andy McNabb, at my suspitions that you are British. He underwent similar training with the SAS and im sure he'd tell you it was pretty damn relevent training during his captivity

It is only after we have lost everything that we are free to do anything

[vortexring 0]

That's a timely reply...

Did Michael Durant post here? Or Andy McGrab(sic)?

So you're still talking BS int'cha!?

SERE training amongst professionals is massively relevant. Unlike yourself, I'm a professional. You would have been told specifically the level of classification regarding your SERE course. Weren't listening, were you?

You've actually pissed me off. Well done!
edit: Mcnab did the older course - applying the older techniques got him a good fucking kicking. As so for John Nichol. So what do you know of relevance? Have you actually been around long enough to understand why the courses changed?

(He actually spoke quite openly and formally to numerous units in the British forces about his experiences..............................................)

So again you're talking BS.

p.s. The final point I'd like to make; the relevance issue was concerning people posting an opinion here on Speakers Corner. It had nothing to do with people in a theatre of operations.

Thought I'd explain that to you. In case you missed it again.

Stay alert, stay alive.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[smooman 0]

since you know me oh so well, i dont feel the need to explain to you what kind of professional i am. In that respect, youve got it all figured out i suppose so have another guinnie on me.

It is only after we have lost everything that we are free to do anything