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"There is a grandeur in this view of life with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
I have strong suspicion that you didn't ever read the whole Origin of Species, just got a quote out of it from some biblical site.
Anyway, how it proofs that "evolution of an ordered universe was only feasible if some intelligent Mind designed the evolutionary program"? It does not. Nor it states that "Creator" == "God".
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I was answering steve's question of "what justification would a non-theist use for slavery?".
QuoteWhat do you hope to accomplish by voting on something?
I'm not voting according to my _beliefs_.
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QuoteI was answering steve's question of "what justification would a non-theist use for slavery?".
I just pointed out that Steve changed the original question asked by Phil, and his change made the question meaningless. While I'd really like to hear the answer for Phil's question, I don't need the answer for Steve's "fixed" question, as most people already know one.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
QuoteI have strong suspicion that you didn't ever read the whole Origin of Species, just got a quote out of it from some biblical site.
Oh, I'm so ashamed... I have never read the whole Origin of Species. So?
QuoteAnyway, how it proofs that "evolution of an ordered universe was only feasible if some intelligent Mind designed the evolutionary program"? It does not. Nor it states that "Creator" == "God".
You protest too much. The implications are clearly there.
Not that it matters that much. For Darwin to concede the possibility of a Creator is inconsequential to reality. Just gives us more insight into the man's mind.
Why don't you address Huxley's confession?
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
QuoteI'm not voting according to my _beliefs_.
What _are_ you voting according to?
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
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What _are_ you voting according to?
According to my opinion based on _facts_ I know.
And yes, I do make difference between real fact and I-believe-it-is-fact.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
What is "opinion"? Isn't this just another argument of semantics--- Isn't it basically the same thing? Your vote simply represents your will. That's the purpose of a vote. 
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
QuoteWhat is "opinion"? Isn't this just another argument of semantics--- Isn't it basically the same thing?
That's why I said "opinion based on facts", not just "opinion".
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
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Oh, I'm so ashamed... I have never read the whole Origin of Species. So?
This is expectable, as you provided out-of-context quote, which is meaningless if you don't read the whole Chapter 14 (15 in 6th edition of Origin of Species - yes, there are two editions). So I just assumed that you did not provide a quote from a OoS itself, just copied it from some biblical site. Am I right?
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You protest too much. The implications are clearly there.
No, they are not.
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Not that it matters that much. For Darwin to concede the possibility of a Creator is inconsequential to reality. Just gives us more insight into the man's mind.
So what? Anyone could consider a possibility of Flying Spahetty Monster as well. You can even consider me as a Creator, who created this whole world five minutes ago, with all those memories.
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Why don't you address Huxley's confession?
Why should I? It is confession of a writer, who was involved in parapsychology. What does it mean for everyone else?
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
QuoteQuoteWhy don't you address Huxley's confession?
Why should I? It is confession of a writer, who was involved in parapsychology. What does it mean for everyone else?
It's the confession of an honest skeptic/agnostic/atheist. But, OK, don't address it.
QuoteThis is expectable, as you provided out-of-context quote, which is meaningless if you don't read the whole Chapter 14 (15 in 6th edition of Origin of Species - yes, there are two editions). So I just assumed that you did not provide a quote from a OoS itself, just copied it from some biblical site. Am I right?
I must confess--- this is ironic. An atheist getting bent out of shape if something from one of their icons is taken out of context!
As for this quote, according to Dr. Charles F. Urbanowicz, Professor of Anthropology at Cal State, there were 6 editions of Origin of Species, and the "Creator" was inserted in the 2nd and subsequent editions. Oh, but I know, "he didn't really mean it!".... whatever; he certainly did at one point in his life.
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
QuoteThat's why I said "opinion based on facts", not just "opinion".
?
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
philh 0
"I was answering steve's question of "what justification would a non-theist use for slavery?".
Ok so perhaps you can answer my question: can you give me an example of people using their dis belief in god during the slavery debates that took place in the 19th century to inspire their defence of slavery?
Please note it is not sufficient to provide examples of atheists defending slavery, but defending slavery becuase of their atheism. The examples you gave before are all irrelevant, they are simply examples of people using silly pseudo science to come to silly pseduo scientific conclusions. Thats nothing to do with whhat we are debating.
The reason I ask this is becuase many people claim thhat atheims leads to immorlaity and Christianity leads to morality. I think this is not the case and whilst some Christians are very moral , Wilberforce being one of them, Chrsitianity does no more lead to morality than any other belief or disbelief.
Ok so perhaps you can answer my question: can you give me an example of people using their dis belief in god during the slavery debates that took place in the 19th century to inspire their defence of slavery?
Please note it is not sufficient to provide examples of atheists defending slavery, but defending slavery becuase of their atheism. The examples you gave before are all irrelevant, they are simply examples of people using silly pseudo science to come to silly pseduo scientific conclusions. Thats nothing to do with whhat we are debating.
The reason I ask this is becuase many people claim thhat atheims leads to immorlaity and Christianity leads to morality. I think this is not the case and whilst some Christians are very moral , Wilberforce being one of them, Chrsitianity does no more lead to morality than any other belief or disbelief.
philh 0
A very good quote from Voltaire
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
So Ill ask you again, perhaps you can reply this time, why do you believe in something as absurd as "What the Bleep"?
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
So Ill ask you again, perhaps you can reply this time, why do you believe in something as absurd as "What the Bleep"?
jakee 1,257
QuoteWhy don't you address Huxley's confession?
I'll address it.
I don't give a shit! What do I care about one author's reasons for assuming a meaningless universe? It has no relevance to my thought patterns whatsoever. Why did you even bring it up?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
Socrates
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
jakee 1,257
Quote"The unexamined life is not worth living."
Socrates
Socrates or Plato?
If I didn't examine my own life how would I know that Huxley's decisions don't apply to me?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Oh, it's not his decision that stands out; it was the motivation for his decision.
I brought it up because I ran across it in my reading and thought it was a good reply to the thread's question, from Huxley's POV that is.
I brought it up because I ran across it in my reading and thought it was a good reply to the thread's question, from Huxley's POV that is.
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
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