Liberalism in the Classroom (Long, but I need your opinion)

[warpedskydiver 0]

No you are wrong she, is a Consumer, and the School is a Vendor, she has the right to be treated fairly, and in a politically unbiased fashion.

You people act as if a School is not a business, wake up will ya?

[JackC 0]

Quit pushing the guys buttons and learn some chemistry and you'll do a lot better. They don't call it "reading for a degree" for nothing. If you did that, you'd know how accurate carbon dating is.

[mnealtx 0]

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Quit pushing the guys buttons and learn some chemistry and you'll do a lot better. They don't call it "reading for a degree" for nothing. If you did that, you'd know how accurate carbon dating is.

You need to go back and re-read the OP - the professor is injecting his politics into the class. As for the carbon dating issue, again, if you re-read her post, she was asking about accuracy as OTHER SCIENTISTS have called carbon dating into question. The prof used that a platform for yet another political statement.

If he wants to teach politics, he needs to change to the political science department - otherwise, he needs to shut up and teach chemistry.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Shotgun 1]

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If he wants to teach politics, he needs to change to the political science department - otherwise, he needs to shut up and teach chemistry.

Doesn't sound like he was teaching politics - just stating a controversial opinion, as many tenured professors do.

And Michele, I'd say your best bet is to ignore it and focus on the subject. Teach yourself and find other resources if the professor is unhelpful. Unless you want to get into an effort to change the tenure system - which might be a good thing - but I am personally more interested in getting my degree and moving on. Learning to deal with the system and difficult professors just seems to be a part of the educational experience.

[kallend 1,672]

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No you are wrong she, is a Consumer, and the School is a Vendor, she has the right to be treated fairly, and in a politically unbiased fashion.

You people act as if a School is not a business, wake up will ya?

Well, if that were a correct description of any educational establishment, all grades would be "A" and the workload would be minimal because that's what the customer wants. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

Consider it training for the workplace, where you might end up with a totally crappy, opinionated and unreasonable boss.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Darius11 12]

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I've read the enabling responses here with a sense of disbelief. This is a college level course, you are well into adulthood. You decide to lock horns with a professor in his classroom and then attempt to end it on your terms. Failing that you are carrying a tape recorder to future classes, considering complaining to ...anyone who will listen, been in tears, and had a nightmare about it.

I've spent most of my life in academia. There are good, bad, fair, unfair, crazy instructors. I've always carried at least a full academic load, worked full time while doing it and avoided high drama over petty issues. When I've had disagreements, I went to them and discussed the problem.

Here's the harsh reality of the situation. This is college, not elementary school. Do your work and suck it up, cupcake.

I couldn’t agree more.

I think your professor actually cares about you to take the time to find facts to maybe change your mind. Maybe you have a problem when people don’t agree with you. Whatever it is you decided to involve your self in that exchange. You can’t just decide to end things when you want how you want. The world does not revolve around you.

As for him talking behind your back. One you can’t be sure what was said, Two aren’t you doing the same thing here talking behind his back.
Sit back do your work, and if he does fuck with your grades because of your views nail him to the wall if he does not (which I am assuming he won’t) then great.

As Bill mentioned it is chemistry so there is a wrong and right answer and easy to prove if you did not get the grade you deserve.

Good luck

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[warpedskydiver 0]

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No you are wrong she, is a Consumer, and the School is a Vendor, she has the right to be treated fairly, and in a politically unbiased fashion.

You people act as if a School is not a business, wake up will ya?

Well, if that were a correct description of any educational establishment, all grades would be "A" and the workload would be minimal because that's what the customer wants. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

Consider it training for the workplace, where you might end up with a totally crappy, opinionated and unreasonable boss.

Equally, you can visualize the professor as nothing more than a piece of shit middle manager, who will be living in the street someday soon.

Or that this asswipe should learn to keep his political crap to himself before one day his right of free speech, is interupted by a group of "youths" that proceed to stomp his body into a lifeless form where he just deficates and expires.

So much for being high and mighty huh?

say whatever you like and live well, for someday your mouth can get you killed.

I wonder if the prof was a racist if he would spout shit at a NAACP meeting?

If he were someones boss spouting this shit all the time, he would wind up jobless and homeless.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Professors who use their teaching postions as a pulpit to berate demean or teach crap that has no place in the classroom should be fired ASAP.

Wanna teach political crap? get a degree in polysci and then a job teaching what you have a degree in.

[waltappel 1]

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Here's the harsh reality of the situation. This is college, not elementary school. Do your work and suck it up, cupcake.

I somewhat agree with what you are saying but you left out a couple of things.

First, the "educational" system is a joke. It's easiest on all concerned if you just play along with the joke.

Second--and this is where I think we disagree--students are *customers*. They are paying for services and there are a lot of arrogant jerks in academia that seem all-too-eager to ignore that. Michele has paid for chemistry instruction and that instruction was diluted with a bunch of irrelevant crap. Whether she agreed or disagreed, it was irrelevant crap.

As a consumer, why should she buy into that as you obviously have, Cupcake?

Walt

[waltappel 1]

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No you are wrong she, is a Consumer, and the School is a Vendor, she has the right to be treated fairly, and in a politically unbiased fashion.

You people act as if a School is not a business, wake up will ya?

The good ol' Ivory Tower. Academia is in its own little world.

Walt

[warpedskydiver 0]

BTW I was not advocating any violence whatsoever.

I was making the point that depending on where a person like that teaches he may run his mouth to the point that someday he may run into a group that likes violence.

I wonder if he were a pro war person and pro bush if he would feel the need to gob off constantly about in in a chemistry class????

I doubt it.

[warpedskydiver 0]

John, do polysci Profs go into tirades about chemistry, physics, or culinary arts in class?

[PeterB 0]

It's a business. Vote with your money, spread the word. Let capitalism do what it does best.

This guy will have enough to do either way. People scared away by an occasional political rant (sometimes triggered by a student) will be replaced with other students who don't mind or even agree with the views.

And as has been said, treat it as a little bit of introduction to the world of the private sector. Until you've proven your worth there and perhaps even after that your boss might be an arrogant idiot who goes on and on about issues that have nothing to do with work.

It sucks but that's life. Gotta choose what battles to fight. If this is important then fight it and accept all the consequences. If it's more of an annoyance then it isn't worth making something out of.

[Lucky... 0]

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No you are wrong she, is a Consumer, and the School is a Vendor, she has the right to be treated fairly, and in a politically unbiased fashion.

You people act as if a School is not a business, wake up will ya?

It depends upon if it's a state funded school or not likely is. You are far less a consumer if at all in a state fundedschool.

From someone who has probably dealt with colleges/univs from a complaintant perspective, you are swimming uphill, esp if you don't have evidence. This IS NOT a consumer/business relationship.

[Michele 1]

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John, do polysci Profs go into tirades about chemistry, physics, or culinary arts in class?

Not in my experience.

I was sitting here, thinking about this. I've never had a professor do what this one has, politically or personally. One professor who is completely pro-evolution kept his personal opinions out of his lectures; I got one of the 3 A's in that class, and busted my ass to get it. He's offered to write me a letter of recommendation, and is someone who I admire and respect; even though his politics are pretty different than mine (apparently), and even though he and I went toe-to-toe about something on an exam (and I didn't prevail). He and I have huge respect for each other.

How interesting to compare that with the current professor.

As for my poli sci professor, he was a liberal democrat, but never ever ever put down a student or belittled them for having a different view. Sure, he challenged us to explain why we had that view, and we engaged in discussion about it, but he never did it in a demeaning way. It was always done to encourage one to examine beliefs, and to reconsider other points; if we did that, and still came up with the same position, that was fine. And HE was a poli sci professor, too...and yes, I got an A there as well.

And another professor, who is a dear one, has totally different belief systems than most western culture. She's from India, and an incredibly brilliant person. She didn't bring her views into the discussion (I found out about them when a classmate's father passed unexpectedly; she took up a collection from the class to get flowers and a card for the classmate, and we all signed it. And it was then that she shared her beliefs...). And yes, I earned an A there, as well.

Not one professor cut a class short to prove a student wrong. Not one professor got their ego in a bind because someone disagreed with them. And not one professor took anything said in a classroom personally and allowed it to affect their positive interaction with a student.

As to the consumer/other issue; I think it's a combination between consumer and something else. Not sure what, but there is a balance there. Yes, I am a consumer. I "hire" the school to give me an education. However, I have a huge part to play in that, as well. My job is to study and learn what is being taught; to do my best, and to get additional help when needed. Their job in this partnership is to make the learning available in a supportive, conducive atmosphere. If I could read a book and get a degree, I'd be papered already. So, if the teacher teaches, and the student learns, all is well. It's when a professor makes it uncomfortable for a student to learn (i.e. get additional help if necessary, give ample time to write down the power point information, et cetera), and not get into a contest of wills with a student, especially when they "back down", that the problem occurs.

Not to put too fine a point on it, in thinking about it over the weekend, that really is the crux of the issue. That I feel unable to ask for help, and unable to ask questions in class, as they tend to trigger a political rant (i.e. the carbon-dating thing)....so what does one do at that point? Apparently, I am supposed to "suck it up, cupcake" and just suffer through it. But there has to be a different answer, you know?

As to the poster who suggested that I might be talking behind his back, and that's doing the same thing he has done, you might be right. However, I look at it like this: the chance that you, the reader, will ever encounter this man in a classroom setting is slim to none (infinitesimal, in fact), and you are not his colleagues. Further, I have not named him. When I am talked about behind my back to a classmate with whom I will share an educational path which likely will cross in the (very near) future (after this class is over), and that serves to denigrate me...well, to me the difference is obvious.

As to the comment that I don't really know what he said, you're right. He could've lied to me. And he likely didn't tell me the whole truth. However, I do believe he did say what he admitted to saying...at the very least. I'd rather believe that he told me the truth than to think he's a liar on top of the rest of the stuff...know what I mean? It would serve absolutely no purpose to lie at that point...so I don't figure he did. Again, he might'n't've told me the complete truth, but that was enough for me.

In any event, I have an exam today to refresh for (after studying all weekend). We'll see how it goes; I am hoping that those who say chemistry is exact enough to know if he's dinging me unfairly, but my knowledge of chemistry is weak enough for me to not necessarily spot it.

The situation is what it is. And we'll see what happens from here.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Lucky... 0]

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Quit pushing the guys buttons and learn some chemistry and you'll do a lot better. They don't call it "reading for a degree" for nothing. If you did that, you'd know how accurate carbon dating is.

You need to go back and re-read the OP - the professor is injecting his politics into the class. As for the carbon dating issue, again, if you re-read her post, she was asking about accuracy as OTHER SCIENTISTS have called carbon dating into question. The prof used that a platform for yet another political statement.

If he wants to teach politics, he needs to change to the political science department - otherwise, he needs to shut up and teach chemistry.

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If he wants to teach politics, he needs to change to the political science department - otherwise, he needs to shut up and teach chemistry.

Teachers have free rein, other than grabbing ass or dropping the N bomb. Don't think so, go a round or two with em. The chair and the dept willback them all the way into civil court, admin hearings, etc...

Then go to a univ and fuck with a tenured prof, they are totally galvanized. If you read my post about that prof who used the Mexican Lightbulb Question to explain your grade, and he retired ameritus.

Theoretically, teachers do X, in reality they do A. Theoretically we have no inniocent people in jail/prison, we know different. There is the written world and the real world, quit living in the written world, it'snot real.

[PeterB 0]

Luckily, chemistry is one of the hard sciences. Even if he tries to sabotage you he'll have a hard time if it's a written test.

I think you'll do fine. You have the intelligence, you've studied. Worry is just interest on a loan you may not take so just do it

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[Lucky... 0]

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No you are wrong she, is a Consumer, and the School is a Vendor, she has the right to be treated fairly, and in a politically unbiased fashion.

You people act as if a School is not a business, wake up will ya?

Well, if that were a correct description of any educational establishment, all grades would be "A" and the workload would be minimal because that's what the customer wants. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

Consider it training for the workplace, where you might end up with a totally crappy, opinionated and unreasonable boss.

That's great! A's and no homework or I'm going to teh BBB.

[Lucky... 0]

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Or that this asswipe should learn to keep his political crap to himself ...

Unless it was conservative rhetoric, right????

[Michele 1]

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Unless it was conservative rhetoric, right????

As I stated earlier in the thread, I'd be just as displeased if he went off on a Republican rant on a student who was liberal, cut class short, and canceled the rest of class because he wanted to prove a point to that student that was unrelated to the class he was teaching.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Lucky... 0]

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Professors who use their teaching postions as a pulpit to berate demean or teach crap that has no place in the classroom should be fired ASAP.

Wanna teach political crap? get a degree in polysci and then a job teaching what you have a degree in.

Religon, Christianity and politics have no correlation? I had a teacher say that Darwin had to cut short his discoveries of evolution due to him being funded by teh church. So we have all 3 in the same nutshell, or at least strongly the 2 and a hint of politics.

I love conservative thinking, black or white, which is it? There is so much grey and overlap in life that it's astonishing.

[Lucky... 0]

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BTW I was not advocating any violence whatsoever.

I was making the point that depending on where a person like that teaches he may run his mouth to the point that someday he may run into a group that likes violence.

I wonder if he were a pro war person and pro bush if he would feel the need to gob off constantly about in in a chemistry class????

I doubt it.

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BTW I was not advocating any violence whatsoever.

This is how the Unibomber got his start [Uni = university / bomber]

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I wonder if he were a pro war person and pro bush if he would feel the need to gob off constantly about in in a chemistry class????

So you think the war has no chemistry signifigance? WMD = cemicals. There is so much overlap that to black and white it is to undermine EVERYTHING.

[Michele 1]

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Religon, Christianity and politics have no correlation?

Not to chemistry, Lucky...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Lucky... 0]

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It's a business. Vote with your money, spread the word. Let capitalism do what it does best.

This guy will have enough to do either way. People scared away by an occasional political rant (sometimes triggered by a student) will be replaced with other students who don't mind or even agree with the views.

And as has been said, treat it as a little bit of introduction to the world of the private sector. Until you've proven your worth there and perhaps even after that your boss might be an arrogant idiot who goes on and on about issues that have nothing to do with work.

It sucks but that's life. Gotta choose what battles to fight. If this is important then fight it and accept all the consequences. If it's more of an annoyance then it isn't worth making something out of.

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Let capitalism do what it does best.

What's that, make a select few into billionaires, the rest go without medical care?

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If this is important then fight it and accept all the consequences.

Exactly

[Lucky... 0]

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Religon, Christianity and politics have no correlation?

Not to chemistry, Lucky...

Ciels-
Michele

Oh yes they do. As I wrote, WMD = chemicals and how the governments react. Perhaos the usable life of the chems, etc....

In biology, who was that guy who determined geneology using a pundit's square and plants in the 1800's? Escapes me now, was it Mendell? But the general popularity was that a black dog and white dog will net a grey dog. He established genetic dominance in regard to geneology, but the rednecks weren't ready to accept that it worked the way he claimed, even tho he evidenced it well with tons of data. So he postumously was given credit for his findings.

Think politics have no place science? I bet there were people beheaded for thinking the world was round (spherical, even tho it's not a perfect sphere)? Just my theory.