California Legislator Proposes Ban on Spanking

[rehmwa 2]

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Maybe we should make another law that punishes parents who let their kids watch too much TV. Perhaps another one for parents who let their kids play too many video games. Or maybe we should throw all parents in the slammer who get angry with their children and raise their voice.

I disagree with your above proposal

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[freeflybella 0]

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I guess what all this boils down to, is what level of government intrusion do you want in your life.

No it doesn't.

But that's the mistake most people are making.

Why stand on principle when it comes to protecting children?

Again, this law says no one gets hit (except for kids over 3). I mean, if you want government to back off - I say let grown ups fist fight over arguments. I'd be for that before I'd ever be for allowing someone to hit a child.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[windcatcher 0]

The government should have no say when it comes to how parents will discipline their children, regardless of the child's age.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[freeflybella 0]

Parents who abuse their kids call it discipline.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[mnealtx 0]

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Parents who abuse their kids call it discipline.

So do parents who don't.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,400]

>Why stand on principle when it comes to protecting children?

Exactly. But if we really want to protect kids, this really doesn't go far enough.

We should definitely be arresting the parents of fat children. Childhood obesity is incredibly damaging to a child's social development and health. Fat kids become fat, insecure, depressed adults with myriad health problems. Of course, if you don't care about our kids, I could see you claiming "let their parents feed them donuts all day!" But if you care about protecting our children, you'll see the need to incarcerate people who are such poor parents that they allow their children to become obese. Do we really need parents like that calorically abusing our nation's children?

And don't forget parents who smoke or drink. Secondhand smoke has proven detrimental effects to children, even if the child is in a different room. And drinking! Don't even get me started. You can't possibly defend a drinking parent driving a child around in a car! A parent who drinks at _all_ should be arrested - unless, of course, you don't care at all about the lives of our nation's children.

[freeflybella 0]

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We should definitely be arresting the parents of fat children. Childhood obesity is incredibly damaging to a child's social development and health. Fat kids become fat, insecure, depressed adults with myriad health problems.

First, it's not illegal to be an obese adult.

Second, food is different from hitting. We need food, we don't need hitting. It's not a black and white comparison.

Third, I do believe parents need much more support in being able to provide their kids with better food options. I think it's a 'crime' that candy and coke are allowed in schools and that McFuckingDonald's is the cheapest food out there, blah blah blah.

Spanking your baby/toddler requires only one thing - stop doing it. It's not effective, it's potentially harmful and in many cases very harmful.

Do most of you believe that your children are your possessions? That how you treat them and what you do to or with them should be outside of any and all common societal acceptance?

We're saying it's not OK to force other people to breathe second hand smoke - but it fuck it, it's fine for babies. It's not OK to hit anyone ever, but go ahead, hit your baby.

Yep. It's a divisive issue. I think I've beat this horse (over 3) long enough.

BUT I offer an alternative to keep your toddler from running into traffic/pushing his sister down the stairs/touching the stove burner.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[billvon 2,400]

>First, it's not illegal to be an obese adult.

It's not illegal to be a spanked adult either.

>Second, food is different from hitting. We need food, we don't need
>hitting. It's not a black and white comparison.

FAR more people die from food (obesity) than from being hit in this country. It is arguably much more dangerous.

>Third, I do believe parents need much more support in being able
>to provide their kids with better food options.

Exactly. And the ones that don't need to be in jail - again, unless you don't care about kids.

>Spanking your baby/toddler requires only one thing - stop doing it.

And keeping your toddler from obesity is just as easy. Stop feeding it so much. Indeed, spanking/not spanking is not a financial issue; it actually costs MORE to overfeed a child. So outlaw it and you save parents money as well.

[freeflybella 0]

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It's not illegal to be a spanked adult either.

you're silly.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[jaaska 0]

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>First, it's not illegal to be an obese adult.

It's not illegal to be a spanked adult either.

Now - that was funny... Not.

To be honest - I'm a bit disappointed to your arguments Billvon. I guess I'm just used to get clear, rational answers from you. I just don't get what's the difference in this particular thread.

To use your fine example:

If you spank someone because of an adult S&M -session, you are right. It's perfectly legal. In fact there are thousands of people who love each other and S&M is just one way for them to show it to each other (I guess).

Try spanking someone randomly in the supermarket or even better:

Now. I don't know whether you are into S&M or not (neither do I care to know). Imagine (if you are not into S&M) that you spanked your partner all of the sudden (not necessarily while you are doing IT) - I don't think she would be to happy about it. Hit her so hard that she will start to cry. Try to explain that you did it because you love her... If you are lucky she will not call the police. Even though she is all grown up and everything this event will have an permanent impact on your relationship.

Imagine doing this to an infant/toddler (0-2 years old). You spank them because you love them so much. Right. I'm sure that this much more fragile human being will understand your argument (if s/he can even yet understand the language) about love and everything...

So - I haven't gotten clear answer from you:

Would you spank your own child (0-2 years old)?

If not, what's wrong with this law?

PS. Did you look up those scientific articles about Early Childhood development and Corporal punishment? Or is it just that you know better than those academic nutheads? "This is common sense" - Right...

[steve1 5]

Freeflybella,
As a school counselor, in a very rough school, I work with abused children on a daily basis. Many are scarred for life, and it's hard to undo the damage that has been done. I make a ton of referrals on parents who abuse their kids to social services and law enforcement. I am happy to do this. I've gotten to the point that I hate anyone who abuses kids. And I agree with you that spanking isn't good. If it leaves a mark I turn it in.

But I hardly think that a parent that gives their kid a little swat is abusing their child. It may not be a good thing to do (again I agree with you), but do we really need to start arresting people for this. I think not. We have enough stupid laws on the books already.

I'm also wondering if you have any parenting experience. I've been a parent for over 25 years. At times it is very frustrating, and it's hard to keep your cool. There was a time or two when I actually swatted my own kids and even spanked them once. I don't feel good about this, but I'm not going to apollogize to you for this. The fact is that nobody does a perfect job of parenting. Arresting people for minor infractions or for not being perfect in every way sounds really really crazy to me!

I just can't see how a parent giving their kid a small swat on occaision could be termed abuse or a crime! I am also suspect of those on a high horse, claiming to have always done the right thing with their own children. Are you sure you aren't stretching things some? I'd bet if we put your parenting style under a microscope we could find a lot of flaws too! After all, you might be the next one to get arrested for not being perfect.....Steve1

[billvon 2,400]

>I guess I'm just used to get clear, rational answers from you.

My answer was showing parallel construction to explain the fallacy of her argument. Her argument was that it's not illegal to show the results of poor parenting later - i.e. it is not illegal to be obese even if your parents caused it, and thus caused all the problems you had later. Likewise, it is not illegal to be an adult who has been spanked as a kid - even if your parents did it and it caused problems. It has nothing to do with S+M.

>You spank them because you love them so much.

Just as some parents feed them until they become ill because they love them so much. Overfeeding is much more dangerous in the long run than spanking. If you truly believe one should be illegal, it should be the more dangerous mistreatment.

>Would you spank your own child (0-2 years old)?

If he/she did something that could cause serious harm to themselves or others - yes. If I had a 2 year old who picked up her sister, tipped her over the barrier and threw her down the stairs, for example, then I would consider spanking.

>Did you look up those scientific articles about Early
>Childhood development and Corporal punishment?

Yep.