What is he thinking????? Numbers don't lie!!

[everymansaved 0]

So I was reading my local paper today, and I happened across an article about rascism against a certian group of people quite prevalent in my city. I won't say which, because this isn't about that group, it's about the idiot writing the article. In it, he states: "(insert group here) are seen (among other things) as not being able to hold down a job. Over 70 % are employed." Now the current rate of employment in my particular province is, oh, 97.1%. How do you think you're going to help dispell a stereotype when you provide cold, hard numbers backing it up IN YOUR ARTICLE!?!?!?! I'm baffled.

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[JohnRich 4]

Please provide a link to the article.

[everymansaved 0]

It was a print newspaper, and the paper's website appears to be on the fritz. I'll try again later today.

Sean LR

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[wmw999 2,167]

He's not proving that they cannot hold a job. He's proving that they are underemployed.

70% of that group holds a job. Therefore that group is not composed entirely of people who cannot hold a job. Therefore the statement that they can't hold one is not true.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[everymansaved 0]

I see what you're saying, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that... well, I guess I'm not entirely sure, but I do know that a 70% employment rate in a job market like ours is pretty poor.

Sean LR

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[livendive 8]

Quote

I see what you're saying, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that... well, I guess I'm not entirely sure, but I do know that a 70% employment rate in a job market like ours is pretty poor.

Sean LR

Is that underemployment the fault of the people of that race or is it the result of racial discrimination? From your original post, it sounds like the latter does exist at least to some extent.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[everymansaved 0]

to be copletely honest, it might play somewhat of a factor, but speaking as someone who has at least daily encounters with this particular group, I can say that a good portion has no desire to work. Besides, in our job market, people will hire anybody they can get. Every single retail business is hiring, not to mention the massive demand in the oilfield.

Sean LR

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[Andy9o8 0]

I'm confused, since my Google searches don't turn up the article, and you won't tell us what group you're talking about. Are you saying they're shiftless, or are you saying they're lazy? You know, as a group. Just want to get this straight so I don't, uh, misunderstand you.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'm confused, since my Google searches don't turn up the article, and you won't tell us what group you're talking about. Are you saying they're shiftless, or are you saying they're lazy? You know, as a group. Just want to get this straight so I don't, uh, misunderstand you.

Doesn't shiftless almost mean the same thing as lazy?

[everymansaved 0]

I don't want to get into a debate over wheather or not I'm a rascist, because I'm not. I simply base my opinions on what I see of society in my line of work (Paramedic in an Urban Center). I see a pretty good cross section of the populous, and the majority of this group are lazy, and have no work ethic. Attitudes like "why bother work, I can get by on what I get from the gov't."

Sean LR

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

I don't want to get into a debate over wheather or not I'm a rascist, because I'm not. I simply base my opinions on what I see of society in my line of work (Paramedic in an Urban Center). I see a pretty good cross section of the populous, and the majority of this group are lazy, and have no work ethic. Attitudes like "why bother work, I can get by on what I get from the gov't."

Sean LR

Oh. I see. Well, thanks for clearing that up.

[everymansaved 0]

Due to the magic of the interweb, I can't tell wheather you're being sarcastic or not! If you aren't then you're welcome! If you are, please expand.

Sean LR

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[rehmwa 2]

I think it's a trick posting to get people to knee jerk into phobist or culturalist name calling - it's so automatic here that it seems a lazy way to just have fun at the expense of the reactionary non-thinkers

is the group college students? Is the group teenagers? Is the group senior citizens?

then the 70% employment number would make a lot of sense

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[everymansaved 0]

No, it's none of the above. I know what you're saying there, but it's a racial group, not an age range or anything. And name calling is what I'm trying to get away from by not naming anything here, because like I said before, that's not what this is about. I was just amazed with the writing in said article.

Sean LR

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

No, it's none of the above. I know what you're saying there,

OK - still, it's a great trick (a dirty one) used by newspapers to skew stats to push an agenda. Look up sometime how the "50% divorce rate is calculated" or the "percentage of women that don't believe in marriage". It's some crazy juggling.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[everymansaved 0]

I agree that stats can be skewed, but finding out how many people have a job (yes or no) seems like a pretty straight forward question.

Sean LR

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I agree that stats can be skewed, but finding out how many people have a job (yes or no) seems like a pretty straight forward question.

You take 10 households.

4 are on welfare - I guess that's 60% employment rate. Not that good is it?

compare to this

10 households - 4 are on welfare with a single adult

the other 6 households have 2 working parents with 3 kids each, 1 kid living there but working his way through college. The two highschoolers in each household are both over 16 and have full time jobs in the summer and part time during school.

Now we have 30 employed and only 4 unemployed. That's 88% employment. A little better.

See how you can claim doom and gloom by just changing the metric from a person to a 'household'?

Now, it turns out that of the 4 that were on welfare, 3 of them started up their own home business but just don't report on it. They make good money making skydiving thingamajingits.......

Now we're at 97% employment by just NOT neglecting 'self employment'.

Of course, the last person is actually clearing about $250,000 a quarter selling drugs or whatever, so not officially unemployed, but doing fine.

This is just on extreme example - but actual tricks people have used in employment stats, twist the results any way you'd like -

I can make it look worse too - take retired people, unemployed minors, housewives/househusbands, full time students, etc and add them to the unemployed ranks to make the percent go down instead of up.......

"numbers don't lie" - but people spin, and spin, and spin,

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[everymansaved 0]

I guess you're right, it just didn't seem to make much sense to me. And besides, the guy wtriting the aticle was arguing against the stereotype, so you'd think that he'd be trying to boost the numbers if anything.

Sean LR

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.