sundevil777 94 #1 October 9, 2006 It would seem that the moral outrage liberals have exhibited doesn't always carry over to pedophilia as depicted on stage. The Vagina Monologues, for example, has a bit called The Little Coochie Snorcher That Could, in which a woman recalls memories of traumatic sexual experiences in her childhood and a self-described "positive healing" sexual experience in her adolescent years with an older woman. In the original version, she is 13, but later versions would change her age to 16. This particular skit has sparked numerous controversies and criticisms due to its content. So, just 13 was too young, but 16 is considered OK? Many, including feminists have been critical of the play, but it is still quite popular on college campuses and elsewhere. Melissa Etheridge and Whoopi Goldberg, for instance, have performed segments of the play. Why no general outrage from Liberals? Why should we believe the sincerity of outrage directed toward Foley? You can say that it is outrageous that Foley was such a hypocrite, that is well deserved, but I think this shows exactly why the term 'selective moral outrage' is so appropriate to describe the reaction from liberals. Perhaps there are some other examples of how pedophilia has been portrayed positively, or acceptable/neutral by Hollywood/Broadway, etc. I'll bet conservatives are more critical of them than liberals. Selective moral outrage. It means that libs are much more interested in knocking off their political opponents than they actually care about pedophilia.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #2 October 9, 2006 You sure are posting a whole lot on this Foley stuff in defense of the indefensible. Remember which party claims "FAMILY VALUES" and "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" as it's own special province.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #3 October 9, 2006 Quote You sure are posting a whole lot on this Foley stuff in defense of the indefensible. Not in defense of Foley or his actions. I think it is quite interesting and useful to compare the general attitudes and actions exhibited by libs and conservatives. Foley is a hypocrite and a bunch of other bad things. , no argument needed there. QuoteRemember which party claims "FAMILY VALUES" and "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" as it's own special province. That is correct, the dems are the party of lower expectations. Republicans don't claim it as their own special province. They do claim to care more about it, and even if some of their members fail to meet the standard, I think they have shown to indeed, care more about it. Kallend, do you care to make a comment relevant to this thread, about the play and how it is popular among many libs? Can anyone find something similar that is popular among conservatives?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #4 October 9, 2006 do you mean socially liberal or politically liberal? My Dad is an example of a social conservative, but a political liberal (& hardcore Democrat). Many Catholics are like that. It's a little more complicated than some people would like to depict it. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #5 October 9, 2006 Your 67 posts (so far) attacking the Democrats over the Foley affair (Foley was a Republican "Family Values" guy, by the way) starts to remind me of "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." (Hamlet, Act 3 Scene 2).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #6 October 9, 2006 Some things really push my buttons, so to speak. The democratic/congressional leadership response to this scandal has been unreasonable, I doth think. So, what conclusion do you reach from my 67 posts so far on this subject? You too doth protest quite a bit, but many times you doth protest without a meaningful contribution to the thread except to change the subject and question motives of a poster. Care to provide a reply, on subject this time?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #7 October 9, 2006 QuoteSome things really push my buttons, so to speak. The democratic/congressional leadership response to this scandal has been unreasonable, I doth think. So, what conclusion do you reach from my 67 posts so far on this subject? You too doth protest quite a bit, but many times you doth protest without a meaningful contribution to the thread except to change the subject and question motives of a poster. Care to provide a reply, on subject this time? Sure. Trying to point fingers at the Democrats is pure BS and a symptom of pre-election panic. This is a GOP mess, and the more they attempt to cast blame eslewhere the more they show themselves to be hypocrites.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #8 October 9, 2006 QuoteSure. Trying to point fingers at the Democrats is pure BS and a symptom of pre-election panic. This is a GOP mess, and the more they attempt to cast blame eslewhere the more they show themselves to be hypocrites. I defy you to show how I have tried to cast blame elsewhere. Hypocrisy from the left is exactly the point of my observations. I understand how that makes libs uncomfortable. If so many had not been so quick to call for Hastert's resignation, etc., then I would not have posted so much.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livetofall 0 #9 October 9, 2006 So kellend waht do you expect? I haven't commented once on this. If you take a perfect neurtal view at this..you wil see its been the anti-conservative skydivers(if all are even) that have made like 4 or 5 posts on this affair. It reminds me of a chidl pointing his finger "see,see,see!" Hasnt this been over rum by them to where a conservative has to defend the fact that one person does NOT represent the whole? Lets put this into DZ values. Ive been to quite a few across US and havent ran into one fag skydiver or at least that made it obvious. So if we found out there is male homo skydivers, do the rest of us straight guys quit wearing purple or magenta on our suits, or rainbows of colors on our canopies because we might be thought to be queer? I think rainbows are beautiful and love color, its too bad the fucking queers took it up as their "flag" but it hasnt affected our community. I have magenta blackberry and neon yellow on my canopy and know its not "femmy". If you are a jumper I figure you should be able to get the point I am making. Sundevil is not defending Foley, just showing how idiotic and chidish it is for the anti-cons to drudge this on against repubs when its usually a business as usual thing among them. I guess we should have the guy who goes splat represent skydiverswww.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #10 October 9, 2006 That is a really lousy analogy. I would prefer that kind of argument not be used in defense of my posts.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
purnell 0 #11 October 9, 2006 QuoteThis is a GOP mess It's actually a Mark Foley mess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #12 October 9, 2006 QuoteThat is a really lousy analogy. I would prefer that kind of argument not be used in defense of my posts. Do you know how many posts you have made criticising analogies as "lousy", "crappy", etc.?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #13 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis is a GOP mess It's actually a Mark Foley mess That too. He WAS a GOP leader.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #14 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteThat is a really lousy analogy. I would prefer that kind of argument not be used in defense of my posts. Do you know how many posts you have made criticising analogies as "lousy", "crappy", etc.? A lot of times, for sure. Of course I know that! I did recently comment that a particular analogy was a good one. I think the value of analogies is vastly overrated. Care to make a post to this thread that is on subject?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #15 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThat is a really lousy analogy. I would prefer that kind of argument not be used in defense of my posts. Do you know how many posts you have made criticising analogies as "lousy", "crappy", etc.? A lot of times, for sure. Of course I know that! I did recently comment that a particular analogy was a good one. I think the value of analogies is vastly overrated. Care to make a post to this thread that is on subject? Pointing out your errors IS on subject.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
purnell 0 #16 October 9, 2006 QuoteThat too. He WAS a GOP leader ...and a disgrace to his office, and the human race in general. But it isn't a "GOP" mess, any more than than it's a "people who have grey hair" mess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #17 October 9, 2006 QuotePointing out your errors IS on subject. Hey now, there are some facts that are without question, one of those is that your analogies suck! Seriously, I think analogies are better limited to subjects that are hard to understand, like string theory! People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #18 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuotePointing out your errors IS on subject. Hey now, there are some facts that are without question, one of those is that your analogies suck! Seriously, I think analogies are better limited to subjects that are hard to understand, like string theory! Some people have a hard time with "The 45 Degree Rule".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #19 October 9, 2006 QuoteSome people have a hard time with "The 45 Degree Rule". If they remain convinced that it is a good rule, let's just modify it slightly so that the previous group must be at the 45 deg criteria for at least 5 seconds! Still no comment from you about my assertions contained in this thread.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #20 October 9, 2006 QuoteSo, just 13 was too young, but 16 is considered OK? 16 is the age of consent in many countries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #21 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo, just 13 was too young, but 16 is considered OK? 16 is the age of consent in many countries. However, both libs and conservatives seem to agree that it is unacceptable in Foley's case. I agree with that judgement. Shouldn't the same conclusion be applied to depictions of pedophilia on stage/movies?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,478 #22 October 9, 2006 >Shouldn't the same conclusion be applied to depictions of pedophilia on stage/movies? I think most people can tell the difference between fantasy/fiction and real world crimes. If not, Arnold Schwartzenegger would be in jail now for murder; I can recall one movie in which he killed 80+ people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #23 October 9, 2006 QuoteSome things really push my buttons, so to speak. The democratic/congressional leadership response to this scandal has been unreasonable, I doth think. most sound bites these days come from republicans themselves. Sort-of an elephant devouring itself -- yuck. There are a few tv ads in local campaigns of dems making hay of this but on the national level they're mostly watching the show. As to examples you ask for - rather getting excited about fictional literature you could go with something more real - such as the ancient greeks. "Where is the liberal outrage over Socrates?" would be a more apt complaint. Cheers, T ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #24 October 9, 2006 QuoteHowever, both libs and conservatives seem to agree that it is unacceptable in Foley's case. I agree with that judgement. I'm not sure of the details of the Foley case (I don't live in the USA), so I'll refrain from comment. I will, however, note that you can get married at 16 in Ireland. If you're old enough to get married, you're old enough to have sex - heterosexual or homosexual. There are probably all sorts of other issues involved in this case that I'm not aware of. QuoteShouldn't the same conclusion be applied to depictions of pedophilia on stage/movies? No. It's art - that means that it can be confronting, uncomfortable, and go against societal norms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #25 October 9, 2006 It would seem that the moral outrage liberals have exhibited doesn't always carry over to pedophilia as depicted on stage. Umm...that's silly. Do you really expect the same response to actions in a play that you expect to actions in real life???? Why do you only expect it from *liberals*? I think there are plenty of conservatives who are also outraged by real examples of pedophilia who aren't protesting this play too. At least I hope so. I would expect that most adults could tell the difference. I'd hate for every movie I see or play I attend or album I listen to to be limited in scope to what's acceptable in real life. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
