Another religion thread.

[Mockingbird 0]

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Everytime you jump from a plane, you believe without proof... so what's the point?

When are you going to get your definitions right? What IS faith? What IS proof? What IS evidence? What is knowledge?

MB Im not sure what you mean with your first comment, can you please explain?

We exercise faith not based on proof constantly. All people do. So what's the big deal about not having PROOF for our faith? We (Christians or not) DO have evidence, however, for our faith... faith that when we throw out the pilot chute, the canopy will be over our heads in a matter of seconds. That's confidence based on the evidence of our past experience, our packer, our equipment, etc. So I fail to see the logic in accusing Christians of having faith without proof.

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What is faith ? – Faith is Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence

What is Proof ? – Proof is The result or effect of evidence; the establishment or denial of a fact by evidence.

What is Evidence ? – Evidence is A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment

What is Knowledge ? – Knowledge is The state or fact of knowing

Right now, what’s your point?????

Your definition of faith is the one commonly used by infidels.org, pagans, atheists, skeptics, etc. They like that definition because it lends [false] credence to their accusations that Christians don't think, they just "feel." Consider these (and notice they say nothing about a lack of logic or proof or evidence):

noun: loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person (Example: "Keep the faith")
noun: complete confidence in a person or plan etc (Example: "He cherished the faith of a good woman")
noun: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny (Example: "He lost his faith but not his morality")

Its most basic meaning is:
• noun 1 complete trust or confidence. 2 strong belief in a religion. 3 a system of religious belief.

— ORIGIN Old French feid, from Latin fides.

... and this is the sense in which I and other Christians use the word, "faith." My faith is based on evidence and testimony.

[pajarito 0]

Mockingbird... You're my hero!

You rock!!!

[Royd 0]

The Bible tells us that Jesus is our advocate to the Father.
Noone, in todays legal system would try to defend himself without a lawyer.
The judge doesn't want to have to deal directly with your sorry ass, so he appoints a lawyer as a go between.
In the case of Jesus, he has enough compassion for you that he is willing to stand in your place, and take your punishment.
As for repentance, you must first believe that you have done something wrong.
If you don't believe that there is a supreme set of laws that apply to all humans, you can't possibly be sorry that you took something that someone else worked really hard to earn, and you won't have a problem saying that you know nothing about it even though it's been proven that you took it.
What is your problem with Jesus. By all accounts, He sounds like the best friend a person could ever have.

[jakee 1,257]

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If you don't believe that there is a supreme set of laws that apply to all humans, you can't possibly be sorry that you took something that someone else worked really hard to earn, and you won't have a problem saying that you know nothing about it even though it's been proven that you took it.

Do you really have so little faith in your own morality?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

Proverbs tells us that foolishness is bound in the heart of a child, but the rod of correction will drive it far from him.
Nature, itself, proves this. In Africa, in one of the game preserves, some young bull elephants were placed into a new area. Apparently, overpopulation.
Anyway, they suddenly found a bunch of rhinos and hippos dead.
Upon observation, they saw that the young elephants had become a rogue band of hoodlums.
They introduced some mature males, and in short order, the foolishness stopped.
So, no, without guidance from some higher authority, whether it be parental, religious, or some other source, people's moral compass becomes skewed.
Let's face it. You don't have to teach a baby or a child to throw a tantrum when they don't get their way.

[jakee 1,257]

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So, no, without guidance from some higher authority, whether it be parental, religious, or some other source, people's moral compass becomes skewed.

So you accept that with a good code of morality taught by parents there is no need for a divine carrot/stick to keep people on the straight and narrow?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

The question that must be answered is, Where did the original authority come from?
Very few people are going to impose upon themselves a set of rules of conduct if there is no consequence for not obeying them.
There are many people who call themselves parents, who think that laws don't apply to them, and in order validate their attitude within their own minds, they allow their children to act like idiots and criminals. Then, they want to defend them, saying that children ought to be free to express themselves.

[jakee 1,257]

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The question that must be answered is, Where did the original authority come from?
Very few people are going to impose upon themselves a set of rules of conduct if there is no consequence for not obeying them.

There are consequences whether you believe in divine judgement or not.

Without the rule of law society does not function - if everyone steals, everyone loses. Co-operation, social hierarchies and group behaviour can be observed throughout the animal kingdom. It works, and that is why we do it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

My question to you is: What is the cornerstone upon which all law, i.e. fairness and truth is based.
If one man or group of men were allowed to set the laws without an overriding authority, they would always try to throw things to their advantage. This is the selfish nature of man.
As for the animals, Feed one dog by itself, and it will eat slowly. put two dogs together,and they will both scarf down their food in order to get to the other dog's bowl.
As for social hierarchies within the animal kingdom, we still have one animal in the group who is the ultimate authority, and everyone else falls in line.
It is the nature of man to rebel against such authority. I believe that this is one reason why people don't like the idea of something or someone who they can't see or touch insisting that they live their lives according to certain standards.

[hairyjuan 0]

history is one source. the 'bible' is the other source, and i have told these things to you, repeatedly. back to the alleged enslavement of the hebrews by the egyptians, no records from that time in egypt mention ANY hebrew slaves. there is a similarly aged pryamid in bosnia, currently being excavated, did the egyptians take their hebrew slaves to bosnia to build it, NO. on the island of tenerife is a pyramid estimated to be 10-11 THOUSAND years old. the "bible" says the planet was created ONLY 6 thousand years old. the bible is clearly NOT historical. Have you read EVERY attachment i have posted to this and other "religion" threads. neither have you sent me your e-mail to get a copy of 'who is this'.

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[hairyjuan 0]

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bullshit.

that what the bible is alright



www.truthbeknown.com

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[Mockingbird 0]

Gee, no one's told me that in a coon's age. Thanks, Paj.

[Mockingbird 0]

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In the case of Jesus, he has enough compassion for you that he is willing to stand in your place, and take your punishment.
As for repentance, you must first believe that you have done something wrong.
...
What is your problem with Jesus. By all accounts, He sounds like the best friend a person could ever have.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[pajarito 0]

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As for repentance, you must first believe that you have done something wrong.

Exactly correct!

[pajarito 0]

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GO GET 'the christ conspiracy-the greatest story ever sold'. when you have read it you might know something about the pile of bullshit you so foolishly take literally.

Why would one trust a book or paper called "Christ Conspiracy" over the Bible? Do you fully trust the motives of the person/persons who wrote your book? Are you willing to bet your life on it?

These guys did with regard to the truths of the Bible:

Philip: Crucified, Phrygia, AD 54
Matthew: Beheaded, Etheopia, AD 60
Barnabas: Burned to death, Cyprus, AD 64
Mark: Dragged to death, Alexandria, AD 64
James: Clubbed to death, Jerusalem, AD 66
Paul: Beheaded, Rome, AD 66
Peter: Crucified, Rome, AD 69
Andrew: Crucified, Achaia, AD 70
Thomas: Speared to death, Calamina, AD 70
Luke: Hanged, Athens, AD 93

[pajarito 0]

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As for repentance, you must first believe that you have done something wrong.

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"I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived (Romans 7:9). So it is with the work-righteous and the proud believers. Because they do not know the Law of God, which is directed against them, it is impossible for them to know their sin. Therefore also they are not amenable to instruction. If they would know the Law, they would also know their sin; and sin to which they are now dead would become alive in them."
--Martin Luther

[hairyjuan 0]

omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent requires that god and the devilare one in the same. more PROOF that the bible is a myth, jesus is the MERELY the personification of the Solar myth, even "apostle paul" is TOTALLY fictitious.

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[narcimund 0]

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omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent requires that god and the devilare one in the same. more PROOF that the bible is a myth, jesus is the MERELY the personification of the Solar myth, even "apostle paul" is TOTALLY fictitious.

In all humility and kindness, I recommend you investigate counseling.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[hairyjuan 0]

the bible was never meant to be taken literally, jesus is MERELY a fable, paul is not historical nor any other characters in the bible myth

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[narcimund 0]

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the bible was never meant to be taken literally, jesus is MERELY a fable, paul is not historical nor any other characters in the bible myth

I strongly suspect that "Hairyjuan" is a bot. Can we get it out of dropzone?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[micro 0]

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the bible was never meant to be taken literally, jesus is MERELY a fable, paul is not historical nor any other characters in the bible myth

I strongly suspect that "Hairyjuan" is a bot. Can we get it out of dropzone?

what's a bot? is it like an advertising thing?

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[narcimund 0]

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I strongly suspect that "Hairyjuan" is a bot. Can we get it out of dropzone?

what's a bot? is it like an advertising thing?

[micro 0]

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I strongly suspect that "Hairyjuan" is a bot. Can we get it out of dropzone?

what's a bot? is it like an advertising thing?

Yeah, it's short for "robot". Bots are automated (or semi-automated) programs which do things online that humans also do. In this case it posts on a forum as if it were a human.

There are perfectly reasonable uses, but often they're malicious or commercial.

[narcimund 0]

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how do you stop them?

Straightforward enough: A moderator bans it.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[LyraM45 0]

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Errr... I think I'll pass. I don't want you shoving your atheism/paganism down my throat.

what from his argument makes you consider this guy an athiest or a pagan?? All because he doesn't believe in MAN'S RELIGION doesn't make him a believer of somesorts. There is a difference between being religious and spiritual.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)