rushmc 18 #26 February 9, 2006 Quote"The disease is called Gonorrhea Lectim" Sadly a great many dicks have already been infected It is not a disease.............It was the cure!!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #27 February 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteI am in Canada currently Speaking of, we flew to the Island for lunch yesterday and had a great time. You two should come over for beer sometime! Give me a call anytime!7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #28 February 9, 2006 QuoteWhich - especially in a democracy - is patently ridiculous. That's the beautiful thing about democracy...you can say that.... Had I said that when living in USSR...I'd be jailed....on top of that citizens didnt have the right TO leave the country.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #29 February 9, 2006 QuoteCompared to what other countries do, we are not as bad as you think. I am an American. Consistent with the world perception of Americans, I don't give a shit about what the rest of the world does. I don't care if every other country does worse. We have a baseline of American. Not Belgian, English, Australian, Bolivian, Ethiopian, or Syrian. We act as Americans. I do not look to Europe for moral guidance (they don't exactly have a stellar record of morality, particuarly prior to 1950). I don't look to Cambodia to see how we should behave. What's wrong is wrong, even if everyone does it. What's right is right even if nobody else is doing it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #30 February 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteCompared to what other countries do, we are not as bad as you think. I am an American. Consistent with the world perception of Americans, I don't give a shit about what the rest of the world does. I don't care if every other country does worse. We have a baseline of American. Not Belgian, English, Australian, Bolivian, Ethiopian, or Syrian. We act as Americans. I do not look to Europe for moral guidance (they don't exactly have a stellar record of morality, particuarly prior to 1950). I don't look to Cambodia to see how we should behave. What's wrong is wrong, even if everyone does it. What's right is right even if nobody else is doing it. Everything is relative my friend7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #31 February 9, 2006 QuoteEverything is relative my friend not true. there is a right and there is a wrong. imo, the "everything is relative" position is part of the societal problems we see today. under that system, no one is responsible for their actions and hence, you get everything from enron to serial killers."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #32 February 9, 2006 QuoteEverything is relative my friend And thus one can defend any action. "Someone else did worse!" Just so long as you don't actually do the MOST EVIL thing in all of history, you're off the hook. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,146 #33 February 9, 2006 Quotenot true. there is a right and there is a wrong. imo, the "everything is relative" position is part of the societal problems we see todayNeither is true -- everything is not relative, but a great many things are. There are lots of questions to which there really isn't a right or wrong answer. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #34 February 9, 2006 i didn't say that everything is not relative; i said that the statement: "everything is relative" is not true. my statement fits with your definition. i'm argumentative today. "Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #35 February 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteEverything is relative my friend And thus one can defend any action. "Someone else did worse!" Just so long as you don't actually do the MOST EVIL thing in all of history, you're off the hook. Not necessarily true. If I kill someone in defense, and I kill someone for the sake of killing, my action was the same, but the motive was different. Should I be punished the same way for killing some one...or is it relative. Which murder was worse?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #36 February 9, 2006 Quotei didn't say that everything is not relative; i said that the statement: "everything is relative" is not true. my statement fits with your definition. i'm argumentative today. I am not a fan of Budweiser, but relative to Coors its a great beer!!! 7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #37 February 9, 2006 QuoteWhich murder was worse? I don't think you're following the conversation. Let's talk about it over beers. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #38 February 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhich murder was worse? I don't think you're following the conversation. Let's talk about it over beers. MMMM....BEEEEERRRR!!! What are you up to this weekend?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #39 February 9, 2006 QuoteEverything is relative my friend True. And it's so easy to defend yourself, your views, or your country by making it relative to other places, people, things, events or ideas. I, however, prefer to look to standards. What is our standard and did we reach it? Our standard throughout the last 100 years was that there is stuff we, as Americans, don't do. "Other countries allow police states. So what's some unwarranted wiretapping? Big deal. Other places just pick you up off the street, work you over and forget about trying to be secret about it." "Sure, I leave my girlfriend with a black eye every now and then. But, man, there are lots of women whose boyfriends put them in the hospital. It's all relative." I prefer to keep things based on stadards. We don't meet the standard of conduct that has been established. Apparently, we have lowered our standards. Sure, not as low as other places, but we've lowered them. I'd rather be part of some place that raises its standards. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #40 February 9, 2006 QuoteI don't think you're following the conversation. The only point I was making is that while we bash on our own government so much for being so bad, most here have never experienced what it is like to live under a shit governement. Relatively the US govt is one of the best. There will never be a perfect govt, but Ill take US over any other one anyday. On the other side of the argument is that unless you recognize and speak up about what is not right, it will never be fixed.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #41 February 9, 2006 QuoteIf I kill someone in defense, and I kill someone for the sake of killing, my action was the same, but the motive was different. Should I be punished the same way for killing some one...or is it relative. Which murder was worse? You've pointed out the inherent apples and oranges in your statement (I bolded it). Sure, they are both fruits, and they come from trees, they are edible, etc. But they are different things. I, however, would prefer the argument that they are not the same actions. They are different. When looking at standards, our standard of conduct is that killing in defense of yourself is allowable. The difference is recognized. It's called "justification." But even that has limitations. Let's say a guy puts up his fists and challeneges you to a fight. You cap his ass. Well, that's technically defending yourself, but with more force than was necessary. There's the relativity you are talking about. Maybe you were afraid he was going to kill you. But in most circumstances, that fear of death wouldn't be reasonable. So it would be an unjustified killing. Let's say that you thought that Joe was going to kill you. So you park outside of his home and gut shoot him when he walks out the door. Nope. No good. That's not self-defense. "We are trying to eliminate the threat of terrorism, so we are using my power as president to conduct these wire taps." Sure, he may justify it to himself, but that's not what governs justification. There's a standard to apply. We fell below it. It's that simple. Like I used to tell my troops, "I've upped my standards, so up yours." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #42 February 9, 2006 I, too, think that we'v got the best system in the world. But I think that the system needs improvement. I also think that the system is not being afforded the proper respect. When we start to say, "We aren't as bad as X" then we inherently justify the failures as acceptable. It's not the way it should be, and some things are white and black without shades of grey. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #43 February 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteJust reportingt that in 2002 another one was stopped on the US West Coast. More details coming in Bush's speech today! Perhaps he'll also tell us about Iraq's WMDs, the small size of the deficit and how it's only short-term, how the US doesn't torture anyone, how Social Security is his HIGHEST priority, and how the US doesn't do ANY wiretapping without a warrant, and other similar stories of his from the past. Compared to what other countries do, we are not as bad as you think. If it is so bad, why not move out of this country? Not only is that not relevant to our behavior, it completely misses the point. The point is that believing a Bush speech about any issue at all when his record as a truthteller is abysmal has to be considered the act of a knave or a fool. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me a dozen times - no way in Hell!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #44 February 9, 2006 QuoteThe point is that believing a Bush speech about any issue at all when his record as a truthteller is abysmal has to be considered the act of a knave or a fool. I couldnt agree with you any more on that. It always amazed me how Clinton got almost impeached over a lie that would have never hurt the country in any shape or form. And yet we have this monkey running a goverment that doesnt necessarily tell the truth all the time, and yet he is still running it. How does that work?!?!?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #45 February 9, 2006 let's see...clinton broke the law and bush hasn't? that would be my first guess."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #46 February 9, 2006 Quotelet's see...clinton broke the law and bush hasn't? that would be my first guess. Someone please tell me nobody believes this any more. Please? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #47 February 9, 2006 Quotelet's see...clinton broke the law and bush hasn't? that would be my first guess. Clinton broke the law. A couple, actually, in that situation. Had it been the head of some corporation allowing interns unprecedented access to stuff in exchange for blowjobs, you can bet that Clinton's justice Dept. would be on that like flies on shit. If he didn't think he did anything wrong, he wouldn't have lied about it. That's a pretty simple indicator. My guess is Bush also broke the law. Like all presidents, he's probably broken it lots of times through performing "official duties" by taking long walks off of short legal piers. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #48 February 9, 2006 okay...clinton got caught red handed; bush hasn't been caught."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #49 February 9, 2006 'tis the facts. lying under oath is against the law and clinton got caught in his lie. bush hasn't broken the law or hasn't been caught."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #50 February 9, 2006 Quotelet's see...clinton broke the law and bush hasn't? that would be my first guess. Lying about getting a blow job in no way put a country at risk. I cant say the same for Bush7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
