What does it mean if Hamas win the Palestinian election?

[Newbie 0]

I'm really surprised someone hasn't posted about this already in here. It looks like Hamas - the largest Palestinian Islamic militant organisation - will have won the elections.

The UK is saying it will only talk with them is if they renounce terrorism. Well woopdidoo, that's sure to work then isn't it?

Is no one else worried about what this is going to mean to the delicate middle eastern situation? This is potentially one of the most unsettling events in current affairs isn't it? Am i blowing this out of proportion.

I know that the Fatah party were not perfect, but at least they said "let's go to the table to talk". All Hamas want to do is dress up children as suicide bombers and have them parade around the place holding AK 47's from what i can see.

Edited for tipoz

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[wmw999 2,182]

I think it's scary, and I'm hoping that having some real power will mean that people who know how to handle power, rather than those who think they know how to get it, will prevail.

But, since they're not going to ask me, there's not a lot I can do, is there

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Gravitymaster 0]

I think this will be seen as declaration of war on Israel by the Palestinian People. They were given a chance between a govt. that wanted to live in peace and make gains through negotiations and one that advocates complete destruction through violence. There are no innocent Palestinians anymore. The People have spoken.

[Newbie 0]

Looks like they are on track for securing a "stunning" victory.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4650788.stm

For those of you unfamiliar with Hamas, here are some delightful shots i found on the web of them in their familiar green headdress, enjoying some quality family and recreational time with their impressionable young....

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Darius11 12]

OMG Look at them Kids playing with guns what barbarians!!!!!!!!


Oh hold on I have to go play Xbox with Little Timmy. We have to get passed this level by killing a bunch of Arabs, Only head shots count wow look at the guys brains blow up Timmy.


There are only inocent Palestinians.
You can’t rape and destroy someone homeland for 50 years and then wonder why there pissed.

If Hamas gets elected maybe they’ll get the same guns we gave to Israel so they won’t have to use suicide bombers. I am all for that.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[pajarito 0]

Is that the voice of Islam?

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

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The People have spoken.

I'm not quite sure that the consequence you described what was intended by the majority of the people.

Based on a Palestinian friend of mine's comment, a lot of people were pissed off with Fatah's corruption and lack of progress in peace negotiations, and he thinks that a lot of people voted fpr Hamas in protest.

His most telling comment: "I guess the lesson here is don't vote in protest..."

[Darius11 12]

That actually is no ones voice It was my writing and my opinion.

When you speak do you feel you are the voice of Jesus?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[pajarito 0]

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That actually is no ones voice It was my writing and my opinion.

Just sounds very familiar.

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When you speak do you feel you are the voice of Jesus?

No...
But I do repeat what he said and tell his story.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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The People have spoken.

I'm not quite sure that the consequence you described what was intended.

Based on a Palestinian friend of mine's comment, a lot of people were pissed off with Fatah's corruption and lack of progress in peace negotiations, and he thinks that a lot of people voted fpr Hamas in protest. His most telling comment: "I guess the lesson here is don't vote in protest..."

There's no question Abbas and Fatah are corrupt. If Hamas continues their contention that nothing in their philosophy will change, they will become very isolated from the world. The real test will be in Hamas's ability to adapt their politics to the world, not to demand the world adapt to them. Now we will see if Hamas can provide the Palestinians with a real govt. that is responsible for serving the best interests of the people, or if they will continue in the role of promoting terrorism.

[aftermid 0]

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I know that the Fatah party were not perfect, but at least they said "let's go to the table to talk". All Hamas want to do is dress up children as suicide bombers and have them parade around the place holding AK 47's from what i can see.

Edited for tipoz

The US and Isreal don't recoginize Hamas as having any legitimacy, so they are not welcome to the table to talk. Obviously a good deal of Palistinines share their views to one degree or another. Are we to just ignore the democratic process that we so viamently tout all over the world?

Maybe if they were recognized and welcomed to the table they would stop resorting to suicide bombings?
Isreal has the human rights record of China. I think terrorism is a relative term:

"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

That sounds like every relativly organized government since the Babylonians.

Until both sides stop dwelling in the past there is absolutly no hope for the future.

On a side note:
What is the one thing Jews and Muslims have in common? Pork! None of them are able to eat pork for some God aweful reason. Imagine your sitting in the fucking desert sweating your ass off arguing the same fucking argument over and over, and on top of all that God says you can't eat Bacon! Send them some Bacon, Sausage, Pork Chops, and an Air Conditioner and tell them they have 2 years to play nice together or we're going to wipe them all out and start over.

As Chris Rock said: "Two thousand years ago before refrigeration and proper food storage techniques pork could kill you, but now a pork chop will save your ass!"

It's OK to kill your fellow man in the name of God, but that same God doesn't want you to eat bacon. What kind of Sadistic God doesn't like bacon? Right there should be a clue that maybe you need to check your beliefs for a second.

[Newbie 0]

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OMG Look at them Kids playing with guns what barbarians!!!!!!!!


Oh hold on I have to go play Xbox with Little Timmy. We have to get passed this level by killing a bunch of Arabs, Only head shots count wow look at the guys brains blow up Timmy.


There are only inocent Palestinians.
You can’t rape and destroy someone homeland for 50 years and then wonder why there pissed.

If Hamas gets elected maybe they’ll get the same guns we gave to Israel so they won’t have to use suicide bombers. I am all for that.

First of all, please do point out where you are playing games where you have to "kill all the Arabs". Battlefield 2, one of the best sellers of last year, featured 2 sides - US AND insurgent middle eastern sides. People play on BOTH sides against each other.

You are also naive if you don't see a stark difference between a child playing a video game and another being shown by his parents how to hold a real, automatic assault rifle, being dressed in suicide bombers garb, complete with fundamentalist prayer bandana, and being not only shown, but told, to follow in the footsteps of the great "martyrs" that have paved the way before them. I don't care HOW you try and justify that, there is a difference in how those children will grow up and what they will grow in to.

Finally, it is not a case of "if Hamas get in, maybe the Palestinians will have guns and can therefore fight without the need to blow themselves up". The suicide bomber is not resorting to this as a last resort - they do so because they see the compulsory military service in Israel for both men and women as equating to every member of Israel as being a sanctioned target in their "war", and, because their skewed view has them believing that they are undertaking the sanctioned word of a god who will then welcome them into a ficticious paradise. Hamas have plenty of guns. They choose to blow themselves up. There is a difference there that you look in to and try to understand.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[jenfly00 0]

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I'm really surprised someone hasn't posted about this already in here. It looks like Hamas - the largest Palestinian Islamic militant organisation - will have won the elections.

The UK is saying it will only talk with them is if they renounce terrorism. Well woopdidoo, that's sure to work then isn't it?

Is no one else worried about what this is going to mean to the delicate middle eastern situation? This is potentially one of the most unsettling events in current affairs isn't it? Am i blowing this out of proportion.

I know that the Fatah party were not perfect, but at least they said "let's go to the table to talk". All Hamas want to do is dress up children as suicide bombers and have them parade around the place holding AK 47's from what i can see.

Edited for tipoz

Is it really that different from the US electing Dubya?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Newbie 0]

[email]

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I'm really surprised someone hasn't posted about this already in here. It looks like Hamas - the largest Palestinian Islamic militant organisation - will have won the elections.

The UK is saying it will only talk with them is if they renounce terrorism. Well woopdidoo, that's sure to work then isn't it?

Is no one else worried about what this is going to mean to the delicate middle eastern situation? This is potentially one of the most unsettling events in current affairs isn't it? Am i blowing this out of proportion.

I know that the Fatah party were not perfect, but at least they said "let's go to the table to talk". All Hamas want to do is dress up children as suicide bombers and have them parade around the place holding AK 47's from what i can see.

Edited for tipoz

Is it really that different from the US electing Dubya?

Well i could be wrong, and i know Republicans can get all frothy at the mouth and can be quite righteous and godly, but i can't recall when they last decided that the way to get him (re)elected was to conduct a spate of suicide bombings.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Andy9o8 0]

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What is the one thing Jews and Muslims have in common? Pork! None of them are able to eat pork for some God aweful reason. ....
What kind of Sadistic God doesn't like bacon? Right there should be a clue that maybe you need to check your beliefs for a second.

[sarcasm]
The brilliance of your view of the world is absolutely breathtaking. [/sarcasm]

[Darius11 12]

You can call me naive if it makes you feel better about your self.
It seems you are incapable of seeing things threw anyone else’s eyes.

There would be no suicide bombers if there were no Israel.
By guns I didn’t just mean guns I mean weapons fighters jets, tanks, and on and on if they had them they would not be killing them selves. Blowing your self up is the last resort.


The only difference I see between there culture of war and ours is we have a lot more means then they do, and they choose to die for something they believe in they don’t think of it as work.

You need to be able to put your self in others shoes and not just the Nikes you know about.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Trent 0]

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If Hamas gets elected maybe they’ll get the same guns we gave to Israel so they won’t have to use suicide bombers. I am all for that.

Are you sure that you're all for that? The last time several armies with equivalent hardware attacked Israel, they got their asses handed to them in the end. Would you be "all for it" if Israel fought a legitimate Palestinian army, won, then decided to keep the lands that some view as Palestine?

For whatever reasons the people voted in Hamas, it looks like it'll be a dicey situation. While I truly think that Israel was hoping a moderate government that would talk out the issues would get elected, I think that electing a Hamas-run government could actually play right into Israel's hands.

Now that the "people" have spoken in free and fair (Jimmy Carter says so, so it's okay) elections, you have a legitimately elected government for the Palestinian people. If this government persues their old tactics of hate, terrorism, and extremism... they might actually convince themselves to keep going after Israel. Now that these acts of terror would have an elected government behind them, Israel would be justified in defending themselves on a larger scale. I'm sure that would get ugly fast, but now there is an elected government to point the finger towards.

But that's just one way things might go.

Oh, hello again!

[Newbie 0]

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You can call me naive if it makes you feel better about your self.
It seems you are incapable of seeing things threw anyone else’s eyes.

There would be no suicide bombers if there were no Israel.
By guns I didn’t just mean guns I mean weapons fighters jets, tanks, and on and on if they had them they would not be killing them selves. Blowing your self up is the last resort.


The only difference I see between there culture of war and ours is we have a lot more means then they do, and they choose to die for something they believe in they don’t think of it as work.

You need to be able to put your self in others shoes and not just the Nikes you know about.

It does not make me feel better to call you naive, it's just my opinion on your view, nothing more or less.

I am quite capable of seeing things through the eyes of others. I wish the situation in the middle east were resolved amicably for BOTH sides. Can you say you wish for the same? I don't want to speak for you, but your posting is too one sided to suggest you do. The Israeli's absolutely must be criticised too, there is no doubt about that, but would you ever criticise the Palestinian militant movement? I could be wrong again, but i doubt it, for it is you who is unable i think to see the views through the eyes of another, not me. At least the Israeli's pulled their own people out of settlements in the Gaza strip, as in actually made positive inroads to achieving some kind of balance. Do you think Hamas will even care about this? They want the eradication of Jews and Israel - how is that going to be a recipe for a successful settlement and peace process?

And why is blowing yourself up a last resort? Why not just carry a gun to a checkpoint and start shooting soldiers? Why walk onto a bus of civilians - children and old people - and destroy and main them, when they have no chance to defend themselves? It is not the work of a person who has no resort to do anything about their situation, it is the work of someone too cowardly to go up to those who have the ability to kill them in a fair fight, and target the eminently more vulnerable and unsuspecting. It is cowardice encapsulated.

You say they "choose to die for something they believe in, they do not see it as work". This contradicts everything every prerecorded message of every suicide attacker i have ever heard goes against. They are doing this PRECISELY because they are - supposedly - carrying out the work of Allah, are they not?

Think about what you are saying and go back and try to understand the nature of the problems in an unbiased light, if you can, before you comment on them; or else you will simply be led by what you hear and not what you understand.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[GTAVercetti 0]

That was pretty good.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[aftermid 0]

You say they "choose to die for something they believe in, they do not see it as work". This contradicts everything every prerecorded message of every suicide attacker i have ever heard goes against. They are doing this PRECISELY because they are - supposedly - carrying out the work of Allah, are they not?

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It seems kind of obsurd to blow yourself up and others in the name of God. Kind of like creating a nation based on Biblical Prophecies that are thousands of years old.

[Newbie 0]

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You say they "choose to die for something they believe in, they do not see it as work". This contradicts everything every prerecorded message of every suicide attacker i have ever heard goes against. They are doing this PRECISELY because they are - supposedly - carrying out the work of Allah, are they not?

_______________________________________________________________

It seems kind of obsurd to blow yourself up and others in the name of God. Kind of like creating a nation based on Biblical Prophecies that are thousands of years old.

That's the problem with religion in general, and religious fundamentalism in particular - once you have arrived at your beliefs, it doesn't matter what others, or the majority, say to you. You are firm in where you stand and what you believe.

This is not just a problem associated to religion but in this context, it is.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[falxori 0]

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You say they "choose to die for something they believe in, they do not see it as work". This contradicts everything every prerecorded message of every suicide attacker i have ever heard goes against. They are doing this PRECISELY because they are - supposedly - carrying out the work of Allah, are they not?

_______________________________________________________________

It seems kind of obsurd to blow yourself up and others in the name of God. Kind of like creating a nation based on Biblical Prophecies that are thousands of years old

yeap, exactly the same
Israel's right to exist is based on a little more than a "Biblical Prophecies that are thousands of years old". its based on a nation that have existed here longer than most other nations in the world.

and back to the subject of this thread, i'm still hoping that good will come out of it. things often look different when you are in control and hamas will have to take responsibility for their actions and the way they reflect on the palestinian people.

the other option is becoming like Afghanistan or Iran, having a terror state and being isolated. i think the palestinians are smarter than this.

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[aftermid 0]

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That's the problem with religion in general, and religious fundamentalism in particular - once you have arrived at your beliefs, it doesn't matter what others, or the majority, say to you. You are firm in where you stand and what you believe.

This is not just a problem associated to religion but in this context, it is.

Exactly. When an entity ceases to be open to change then they close the door to progress. Most fundemental belief systems are in complete opposition to change. For the US to say it flat out won't deal with Hamas would be an excelent example of such a belief system gone awry. Anytime we deal in absolutes we're closing the door to progress.

[SkyDekker 1,156]

those pictures kinda look like these

[juanesky 0]

On the other hand, now they will be forced to man up, and wear uniforms when trying to bomb some innocents.

It could be interesting, but for now, it does not look good.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon