War in Iraq

[ViperPilot 0]

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And Id love nothing more than to get a bunch of war hating colege kids in my platoon

Do you really want a bunch of idiots who probably can't shoot worth shit watching your six? One of my buddies who just got out of the Marines said one of the biggest reasons he got out is because he couldn't stand going down an alley with 4 guys he didn't really trust to do their job well/protect him. I don't blame him for it. A draft is a bad idea...just means more people who don't want to be there, but on top of that, suck really bad.

[mikkey 0]

Let's see: No WMD's, no connection to 9/11, no substantial connection to Al Qaeda... ah, yes Iraq is much better off then under Saddam!!

Oh, wait... what is this????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4475030.stm

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Iraq abuse 'as bad as Saddam era'

The former Iraqi prime minister, Iyad Allawi, has called for immediate action against human rights abuses.
Such abuses are as bad today as they were under Saddam Hussein, Mr Allawi told Britain's Observer newspaper.

Militias are operating within the Shia-led government, torturing and killing in secret bunkers, he said.

Hmmmmmmm......... and how many people have died so far? "Mission accomplished"

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[artistcalledian 0]

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Let's see: No WMD's, no connection to 9/11, no substantial connection to Al Qaeda... ah, yes Iraq is much better off then under Saddam!!

Oh, wait... what is this????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4475030.stm

Quote

Iraq abuse 'as bad as Saddam era'

The former Iraqi prime minister, Iyad Allawi, has called for immediate action against human rights abuses.
Such abuses are as bad today as they were under Saddam Hussein, Mr Allawi told Britain's Observer newspaper.

Militias are operating within the Shia-led government, torturing and killing in secret bunkers, he said.

Hmmmmmmm......... and how many people have died so far? "Mission accomplished"

don't point out the hard facts to the Americans, spoils their dream of being the saviours of the whole world.... they can do no wrong in their eyes, their "boys" are doing a god damn fine job over there

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drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[ViperPilot 0]

I like how you responded to me w/ that even though all I said was a draft is a bad idea. If it was in sheer laziness since my name was at the top of the page, then that's cool.

But, just for fun...

Yeah, some idiots are running around torturing people...say it ain't so! These cases are limited and are nothing close to the numbers of Saddam. The torture/abuse is as bad as what was seen in Saddam's era, but not even close to the volume of what was done. It's as easy as 2 scenarios:

1. People tortured, used in medical experiments and just plain executed on a daily basis...caveat: This is all in massive numbers. Your daughter/wife will most likely be raped, in fact, it's pretty much a given. You're so poor you can barely feed your family, lucky for you Saddam is taking all the aid money and using it himself. An education system is almost non-existent, power and clean water...what? A country ruled by the deathgrip of a mad man.

2. FREEDOM! Massive progress in education, clean water, good sewage system and a growing electricity system. Jobs are up greatly, you're guaranteed to have one if you're not picky. You have a democracy which is working hard to turn your state into one of freedom and peace, not one of a perpetual dictatorship. Yes, there is violence, destruction and sadness. But, if freedom and a better life isn't worth fighting for and dying for, then what is?

Well there ya go, two choices. Neither is perfect. One is easy to pick, but harder to do. One is hard to pick, but easy to do. It's too bad so many in this world today are always looking for the easy way and find nothing worth fighting for. Below is the single quote that best describes a growing number of people in this world today...sad.

"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill

[billvon 2,476]

>Yeah, some idiots are running around torturing people...say it ain't
> so! These cases are limited and are nothing close to the numbers of
> Saddam.

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Abuse worse than under Saddam, says Iraqi leader

· Allawi in damning indictment of new regime
· Bush prepares way for US troop pull-out

Peter Beaumont, foreign affairs editor
Sunday November 27, 2005
The Observer

Human rights abuses in Iraq are now as bad as they were under Saddam Hussein and are even in danger of eclipsing his record, according to the country's first Prime Minister after the fall of Saddam's regime.

'People are doing the same as [in] Saddam's time and worse,' Ayad Allawi told The Observer. 'It is an appropriate comparison. People are remembering the days of Saddam. These were the precise reasons that we fought Saddam and now we are seeing the same things.'

In a damning and wide-ranging indictment of Iraq's escalating human rights catastrophe, Allawi accused fellow Shias in the government of being responsible for death squads and secret torture centres. The brutality of elements in the new security forces rivals that of Saddam's secret police, he said.
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[Gravitymaster 0]

It wasn't that long ago you had a big problem with Allawi's credibility.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1663267#1663267

So does he have credibility or not? Or does it just depend on whether you like what he says?

[billvon 2,476]

>So does he have credibility or not?

Actually, I don't place much trust in what he says. I place even less trust in the right wing's description of Iraq as a happy place of freedom and hope. About the only depictions of Iraq I trust come from friends of mine who have been there - and they match Allawi's descriptions a lot more closely than, say, Viperpilot's.

But surely right wingers who trusted Allawi enough to invade Iraq based on his information will not now discard him since he is saying something they disagree with?