What to do about Cindy Sheehan

[Gravitymaster 0]

Probably one of the weakest attempts at a point I've seen on here in quite a while. Bridgette Quinn invites someone on to discuss the Presidents Inaguration and the guest comes on with a hidden agenda. Quinn hardley "flips out" as the site suggests. She just appears a little unprepared, and rightfully so.
In the second clip, a reporter makes a slip of the tongue. One which happens from time to time. There are even comedy specials about reporters doing the same thing. So what point is it you are attempting to make from them? I don't see it.

[billvon 2,772]

An example of what can happen when FOX has one of those little "slips of the toungue" -

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When Blame Knocks on the Wrong Door
Since Fox News wrongly identified a La Habra home as that of a terrorist, its five- member family has faced an angry backlash.

By H.G. Reza, Times Staff Writer

Randy and Ronnell Vorick thought La Habra was about as far away as one could get from terrorism. They were wrong.

For the last 2 1/2 weeks, the lives of the couple and their three children have been plunged into an unsettling routine of drivers shouting profanities, stopping to photograph their house and — most recently — spray-painting a slogan on their property.

Their house, a suburban fixer-upper the Voricks bought three years ago, was wrongly identified in a cable news broadcast as the home of a terrorist.

"I'm scared to go to work and leave my kids home. I call them every 30 minutes to make sure they're OK," Randy Vorick said.

"I keep telling myself this can't be happening to me. This can't be happening to my family. But it is. I want our lives to be normal again," he said.

In what Fox News officials concede was a mistake, John Loftus, a former U.S. prosecutor, gave out the address Aug. 7, saying it was the home of a Middle Eastern man, Iyad K. Hilal, who was the leader of a terrorist group with ties to those responsible for the July 7 bombings in London.

Hilal, whom Loftus identified by name during the broadcast, moved out of the house about three years ago. But the consequences were immediate for the Voricks.

Satellite photos of the house and directions to the residence were posted online. The Voricks told police, who arranged for the content to be taken down. Someone even removed the street sign where the Voricks live to provide some protection.

Still, it has not been easy.

A driver yelled a profanity at the family and called them terrorists as they barbecued on their patio Aug. 14. Some drivers have stopped and photographed the house, Randy Vorick said.

Last weekend, someone spray-painted "Terrist" on their home. Police, who have regularly patrolled their house since the day after the broadcast, now station a squad car across the street.

Randy, a restaurant manager, and Ronnell, a manager at a staffing agency, have been married 19 years and met as teenagers when they worked at a local McDonald's.

They grew up in La Habra and bought the house three years ago after Hilal moved out so they could be close to Ronnell Vorick's parents.

La Habra Police Capt. John Rees said the department was "giving special attention to the family to make sure they're safe," but declined to elaborate.

"This thing broke on a Sunday, when we started receiving inquiries from the public about terrorists," he said.

The Voricks said they had made several unsuccessful attempts to contact Fox News and Loftus by telephone and e-mail. They want a public apology and correction.

Both have issued apologies — Fox in a one-line statement to the Los Angeles Times and Loftus in an e-mail to the family — after being contacted by the newspaper. The Voricks say they have yet to see or hear a correction.

"John Loftus has been reprimanded for his careless error, and we sincerely apologize to the family," said Fox spokeswoman Irena Brigante.

Loftus also apologized and told The Times last week that "mistakes happen."

"I'm terribly sorry about that. I had no idea. That was the best information we had at the time," he said.

Loftus said he gave out the address to help local police, and insisted that Hilal, a Garden Grove grocery store owner, was a terrorist.

"I thought it might help police in that area now that we have positively identified a terrorist living in [Orange County]," he said.

Cathy Viray, an FBI spokeswoman in Los Angeles, said agents were looking into Loftus' terrorist allegations but stopped short of calling it an investigation.

The Voricks' nightmare began Aug. 7 when they were returning from SeaWorld in San Diego with their daughters, 17 and 5, and son, 14.

"I was driving home and my neighbor called saying that some guy on Fox said a terrorist lives at my house and gave out the address," Randy Vorick said.

The next day, the couple left for a four-day cruise to Santa Catalina Island and Ensenada, leaving their children in the care of a house-sitter and Randy Vorick's brother, all unaware of the growing fallout from Fox's report.

When they returned Aug. 12, Randy Vorick said he had received several e-mails and messages on his cellphone from friends who told him that Loftus had been interviewed on KFI-AM (640) radio and repeated his allegation about a terrorist living in La Habra. The radio station did not broadcast his address.

In addition, the house-sitter said police had stopped by Aug. 8 to check on their safety and were keeping an eye on the house. Randy Vorick said he had e-mailed Fox and Loftus, asking for a public retraction and apology.

He said the apologies that came were too little, too late.

On Monday night, the day after someone spray-painted their house, the Voricks were up all night looking at the street and the cars that drove by.

"I just want a good night's sleep," Randy Vorick said. "I don't know when I'm going to have it."

[masterblaster72 0]

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Probably one of the weakest attempts at a point I've seen on here in quite a while.

It's a point, and to you it's weak attempt at a point because you don't disagree with where Fox News is coming from. To me and plenty of others (obviously not many in this forum, and that's fine) it's a point and a very solid one. I never saw an anchor get that flustered.

There was no hidden agenda -- she was a guest. A guest who was asked questions. Obviously Fox didn't know her well enough, because Fox has an agenda, and the opinion she expressed went against that agenda. That's why the anchor got flustered and nervous. It was not normal, professional journalist behavior.

I've never seen these kinds of incidents on any news network. To me it's appauling and I feel embarrassed for these anchors watching them f.ck up like that. Also, I majored in journalism, so I take objectivity seriously, and I definitely wouldn't expect these kinds of f.ck ups coming from a national news channel. If that didn't trouble you, there isn't much that will. There are plenty of better news sources out there though, even ones that take the conservative approach.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[pirana 0]

News on all major networks in this country devolved into entertainment years ago. I think the only dependable source for good news nowadays is from independent individuals who actually experience the events. Problem is you've got to wait for them to get word out since they can not plug into the infrastructure of the networks.

This is why what independent journalists bring back or write often reads like espose'. The networks and other mainstream media feed the public pablum day after day, then when someone serious about truth finally gets word out, it doesn't jive with the BS everyone has been force fed for so long.

And people like Limbaugh, sheesh. At least he's honest though. No hidden agenda there. A mouthpiece orating from the bully-pulpit of the hard line right. He's not trying to pull anything over on anybody, but he's a million miles from being objective.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Mockingbird 0]

AND NOW FOR A BIT OF COMIC RELIEF...

August 21, 2005: Best? Movie. Clip. Ever. http://www.extremewisdom.com/archives/2005/08/best_movie_clip.php

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[pirana 0]

That is a very funny clip. My favorite though is still the diatribe layed on Robin Williams by Leo DeCaprio in Good Will Hunting. I think it is his response to Williams trying to convince him that he should give a shit about the world. In a single rambling rant he seems to work in every scandal and conspiracy, true and false, ever known to modern man. Great stuff.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rehmwa 2]

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I've never seen these kinds of incidents on any news network.

Just things like Rathergate that took real planning and effort to make happen.

Other - Leo DeCraprio wasn't in a good flick like Good Will Hunting

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[masterblaster72 0]

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Just things like Rathergate that took real planning and effort to make happen.

That was a f-up of a completely different, much worse kind. Justice was done by Rather resigning for being the jackass that he is for letting that happen.

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The reason this thread is up in the first place is because those angered by it are being fed this junk by Fox News and eating it. In the big picture, *Cindy Sheehan is a non-issue*. If the press ignores her, she has no effect. I don't have an opinion on what she does; she's just being an American.

She's a distraction. Distractions work to the advantage of those botching the war.

The big issue is why are so many troops getting killed and why is this war turning into a clusterf.ck of a mess. The subject of this thread should be: what to do about better protecting our troops and making Iraq a viable and peaceful democracy.

Why isn't the administration doing a better job of running it? Again, think they're doing as well as can be done, and are you proud of the way your administration is running this war?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Gravitymaster 0]

The reason this is being promoted by Fox is because it helps Americans see the Democratic Party as one that supports people who are wackos. Republicans have been successful in 6 of the last 8 elections in doing this. Dems fall for it every time. Don't you think part of the reason the Dems lost the last election is because they had Michael Moore at their Convention?
Dumber than Pavlovs dog, you think they would learn.

[masterblaster72 0]

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The reason this is being promoted by Fox is because it helps Americans see the Democratic Party as one that supports people who are wackos.

So you agree that Fox is spin. I don't deny there are democratic wackos. There are plenty of wacko Republicans too, ones that blow up abortion clinics, ones that amass arms and bombs out of paranoia, religious fundamentalists (Pat Robertson, American taliban), etc...

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Don't you think part of the reason the Dems lost the last election is because they had Michael Moore at their Convention?

That could very well be. I don't like Michael Moore, I think he is a fat a-hole, he polarizes, and he lies. Just like cons shouldn't like Rush Limbaugh -- he is a fat a-hole, he polarizes, and he lies, not to mention he's also a disgraced pill junkie. But people like them serve their purposes pandering to party loyals who don't like questions. I think Fahrenheit 911 might have ruined the campaign for Kerry by making a movie out of potential ad content -- there was some devastating footage of Bush & cronies doing/saying shit that would have been very costly had it been aired on tv and not in a theatre. But the biggest reason the dems lost is because Kerry is a wuss (no matter what your take on his service, at least he went to war) Bush has so many chinks in his armor and he could have been bludgeoned by any candidate that had a spine.

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Back to your point about Fox News: you're being distracted. I can understand it feels good for republicans to hear a channel that dedicates itself to bashing democrats -- I can imagine there's plenty of comfort to take in that. But there's a bigger issue that we should all care about as patriotic Americans -- one that Fox isn't raising questions about. So again the point I've raised several times that no Bush supporters here seem to have answered to:

Why isn't the administration doing a better job of running the war? Why are we approaching 2000 dead? Again, think they're doing as well as can be done, and are you proud of the way your administration is running this war?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[bodypilot90 0]

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There are plenty of wacko Republicans

But they are not the ones in control of the Republican party, for the dems it is.....

[Gravitymaster 0]

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There are plenty of wacko Republicans

But they are not the ones in control of the Republican party, for the dems it is.....

I give up. They are never going to get it because their ideolgy blinds them to the reality. I would think that after only winning 3 0f the last 11 Presidential elections and having lost and failed to regain either the Senate or the House by election for the past 11 years, they would begin to see the light and figure out that there must be a reason other than "Rush is Fat" "Bush is an Idiot" "The American People are Stupid" and "Fox News hates Democrats and tells lies". But until they do, good for us.

[kallend 1,853]

Why is the Bush administration doing such a poor job of managing this war in Iraq? Why doesn't it bother you?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Why is the Bush administration doing such a poor job of managing this war in Iraq? Why doesn't it bother you?

Because the Bush Admin. doesn't have the guts to do what needs to be done because of all the political backlash he'd get from the Left. It's going to take another 9/11 before Americans give him the political capital to act.

[masterblaster72 0]

It's hard to respond to that when, to a typical republican, anyone to the left of Joe Lieberman is considered a liberal wacko. To me, a religious fundamentalist, like Ralph Reed, borders on wacko. To me, the idea of having a president who is a former cokehead and alcoholic, who used to blow up frogs with firecrackers as a kid, who refuses to speak English correctly, who almost died choking on pretzels, borders on wacko.

Howard Dean is fiery, and that screech will forever make him a loony in the eyes of those who disagree with him. To you he's a wacko. I don't necessarily like him, and I don't know his ideas too well. But he has a spine, which is what the democrats have been lacking. Whether that helps them or hurts them remains to be seen.

I wonder how you would feel about this war and the way it's going had it been started and run by a democratic administration. I'm sure you'd be incensed.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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It's hard to respond to that when, to a typical republican, anyone to the left of Joe Lieberman is considered a liberal wacko. To me, a religious fundamentalist, like Ralph Reed, borders on wacko. To me, the idea of having a president who is a former cokehead and alcoholic, who used to blow up frogs with firecrackers as a kid, who refuses to speak English correctly, who almost died choking on pretzels, borders on wacko.

Howard Dean is fiery, and that screech will forever make him a loony in the eyes of those who disagree with him. To you he's a wacko. I don't necessarily like him, and I don't know his ideas too well. But he has a spine, which is what the democrats have been lacking. Whether that helps them or hurts them remains to be seen.

I wonder how you would feel about this war and the way it's going had it been started and run by a democratic administration. I'm sure you'd be incensed.

Thank-you for clarifying my point by giving a clear and comprehensive example.

[masterblaster72 0]

If nothing else, your answer showed that you don't think the war is being conducted in well either.

So your point: the war isn't going as well as it should be run because of feared backlash from the left. You're saying there are 2000 dead after "mission accomplished" because this admin is scared of liberal crybabies -- and if it weren't for those liberal crybabies, the war would have been already won.

I'll attempt to take your point seriously by asking you this: why should Bush care about backlash from the left when every branch of government is skewed in his favor? *He doesn't need to care about backlash from the left* (and in reality, he really doesn't anyway).

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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If nothing else, your answer showed that you don't think the war is being conducted in well either.

You are correct. However, my ideas on what we need to do to correct it are vastly different than your I imagine.


So your point: the war isn't going as well as it should be run because of feared backlash from the left. You're saying there are 2000 dead after "mission accomplished" because this admin is scared of liberal crybabies -- and if it weren't for those liberal crybabies, the war would have been already won.

[jdhill 0]

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Why is the Bush administration doing such a poor job of managing this war in Iraq?

I don't know, rose colored glasses, poor counsel, too much second guessing and armchair quarterbacking, too many politicians who whish they were generals (and maybe visa versa)... cashing in on too much of the socalled "Peace Dividend" in the '90s is part of it... not sure...

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Why doesn't it bother you?

Who says it doesn't? I doubt we agree on which direction we need to go though...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[pirana 0]

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I've never seen these kinds of incidents on any news network.

Just things like Rathergate that took real planning and effort to make happen.

Other - Leo DeCraprio wasn't in a good flick like Good Will Hunting

So who was the young dude in Good Will Hunting? OK, I'll look it up.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Apologies, Matt Damon played Will Hunting and did the rant I find so entertaining. But I did remember the movie I liked so much that had Leo D. in it - Basketball Diaries (story of Jim Carroll's life).

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rehmwa 2]

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(story of Jim Carroll's life).

Yeah - Jim Carey is funny

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[starkmtn 0]

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Why is the Bush administration doing such a poor job of managing this war in Iraq? Why doesn't it bother you?

It's going to take another 9/11 before Americans give him the political capital to act.

What do you mean by political capital?

More money?
More of our civil liberties?
More manpower for "war without end?"

I'm not being an a$$, I'm being serious. I'm intrigued as to what you feel we could give our government and our country as far as political capital in order to BE safe from terrorism (not just FEEL safe).

"You guys should just do CRW. There are so many more ways to get killed, it makes a CYPRES seem safe." -Kevin Keenan

[masterblaster72 0]

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It's going to take another 9/11 before Americans give him the political capital to act.

"And it's one of the wonderful -- it's like earning capital. You asked, do I feel free. Let me put it to you this way: I earned capital in the campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it. It is my style. That's what happened in the -- after the 2000 election, I earned some capital. I've earned capital in this election -- and I'm going to spend it for what I told the people I'd spend it on, which is -- you've heard the agenda: Social Security and tax reform, moving this economy forward, education, fighting and winning the war on terror."

In his own very ineloquent words -- he has the political capital. So stop making weak excuses for him.

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they would begin to see the light and figure out that there must be a reason other than "Rush is Fat" "Bush is an Idiot" "The American People are Stupid" and "Fox News hates Democrats and tells lies"

I agree that all of the above are true, except for the Americans are stupid part. I believe that's partially true (and it has nothing to do with party affiliation). We'd agree on many of the reasons why I think dems haven't been successful, and we'd disagree on others. None of the above are ones I blame for dem failure.

One thing I'd like to see some republicans do is be responsibile and place accountability where it belongs and realize that not all problems in this country stem from the left. It won't happen.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Gravitymaster 0]

He did earn some Political Capital after 9/11. Unfortunately he doesn't currently have enough to do what he needs to do to get the war over and get our troops back home. That task is going to be left up to the next President which no doubt will be a Republican because the Dems can't get rid of the hatred and anger for every Republican including Roberts etc. They make gains with the American people and then squander it with stupid attacks from people like Howard Dean. Haven't you noticed how quiet the next Presidential contenders have gotten?
I put a lot of blame on Bush. I'm pissed off about our border security and I'm pissed off about the way he has conducted the war. Were Bush able to run again, I probably wouldn't vote for him unless the Dems ran someone like Kerry or Dean again.