Racism - you have got to be kidding

[EBSB52 0]

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/sports/article.adp?id=20031023224209990004

When was the last time a white guy won the MVP? Blacks represent 13% of the US, but 70 some % of the NFL last I heard and probably more of the NBA. WHat a joke. COuld it be that Nash was the only real substantial player added to the last place Suns this year and they won more games than anyone else? COuld it be that the 20 games they lost Nash was absent from many/most of them? Could it be that the Suns are 5-0 in post season and that Nash is the most unselfish player possibly in league history? This is an outright fucking joke.

[panzwami 0]

Clicktastic

[edit to fix bonehead markup error]

[rehmwa 2]

Facist professional athletes.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[EBSB52 0]

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Facist professional athletes.

Funny how the flag-wavers can't refute contemporary American Fasism, not that this topic has anything to do with Fascsim, but they just joke about it.

One word..... Acquiescense

[Kennedy 0]

"there is none so blind as he who will not see"

The question is, did I post that to refer to you, or to your "flag wavers?"

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

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Funny how the flag-wavers can't refute contemporary American Fasism, not that this topic has anything to do with Fascsim, but they just joke about it.

If you are going to devote all of your online threads to fighting evil American fascists, you ought to at least learn how to spell it.

[kelpdiver 2]

the crime in all this is that Shaq was ahead of Wade, who should have been ahead of Nash.

[waltappel 1]

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http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/sports/article.adp?id=20031023224209990004

When was the last time a white guy won the MVP? Blacks represent 13% of the US, but 70 some % of the NFL last I heard and probably more of the NBA. WHat a joke. COuld it be that Nash was the only real substantial player added to the last place Suns this year and they won more games than anyone else? COuld it be that the 20 games they lost Nash was absent from many/most of them? Could it be that the Suns are 5-0 in post season and that Nash is the most unselfish player possibly in league history? This is an outright fucking joke.

Not sure where you are coming from. If I said that the NBA is mostly black because it's easier to train monkeys, then that would be racist.

The whole concept of spectator sports in this country is pretty much nothing but a joke. IMO, fans place far too much value on what amounts to a trained circus act.

I respect athletic accomplishments but I don't think anyone deserves to make millions based on athletic performance. Same goes for the people who promote and televise these events.

The fact that the NBA keeps a bunch of guys too busy to pursue their criminal careers full-time is worth something to our culture, but not worth nearly as much as fans are willing to pay.

I'd love to see people boycott these sporting events until the ticket prices and salaries more realistically reflect their value. No way should a professional basketball player or football player make more than a firefighter, trash collector, mail carrier, or teacher.

Walt

[EBSB52 0]

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"there is none so blind as he who will not see"

The question is, did I post that to refer to you, or to your "flag wavers?"

Enjoy your mirror time with that.

Actually, you did not post.

[EBSB52 0]

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Funny how the flag-wavers can't refute contemporary American Fasism, not that this topic has anything to do with Fascsim, but they just joke about it.

If you are going to devote all of your online threads to fighting evil American fascists, you ought to at least learn how to spell it.

"all" ... ah yes, American conservatism at its finest. All,none, never, always as a staple of the American conservative diet.

As for missing a letter in that word, of all the times I have spelled, "Fascism," find another that is misspelled.


Must suck to have no argument against it and to have to resort to looking for spelling errors thru other than ignorance for defense of it.

[EBSB52 0]

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the crime in all this is that Shaq was ahead of Wade, who should have been ahead of Nash.

At what point? The point of this thread was whether racism was present in the giving of MVP to Nash. My question was when was the last time a white guy received the MVP. Of course there could be racism even if it was 50 yeards ago when a white guy won, but I was just curious when that was. As I wrote before, worst to first in 1 year, Nash was the only important addition, I think it's warranted.

[EBSB52 0]

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http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/sports/article.adp?id=20031023224209990004

When was the last time a white guy won the MVP? Blacks represent 13% of the US, but 70 some % of the NFL last I heard and probably more of the NBA. WHat a joke. COuld it be that Nash was the only real substantial player added to the last place Suns this year and they won more games than anyone else? COuld it be that the 20 games they lost Nash was absent from many/most of them? Could it be that the Suns are 5-0 in post season and that Nash is the most unselfish player possibly in league history? This is an outright fucking joke.

Not sure where you are coming from. If I said that the NBA is mostly black because it's easier to train monkeys, then that would be racist.

The whole concept of spectator sports in this country is pretty much nothing but a joke. IMO, fans place far too much value on what amounts to a trained circus act.

I respect athletic accomplishments but I don't think anyone deserves to make millions based on athletic performance. Same goes for the people who promote and televise these events.

The fact that the NBA keeps a bunch of guys too busy to pursue their criminal careers full-time is worth something to our culture, but not worth nearly as much as fans are willing to pay.

I'd love to see people boycott these sporting events until the ticket prices and salaries more realistically reflect their value. No way should a professional basketball player or football player make more than a firefighter, trash collector, mail carrier, or teacher.

Walt

I wholly agree.

The fact that the NBA keeps a bunch of guys too busy to pursue their criminal careers full-time ...

Bahahahaha.

Right, the guy feeding the homeless at the shelter is a schuck; the guy dunking a ball or hitting a little ball 300 yards into a cup with the fewest strokes is what's worth celebrating. It's the foundation of this country to celebrate the wrong people for the wrong things, and then we create people like Michale Jackson, OJ, and a myriad of others and wonder why. The emphasis of our priorities is wayyyyy out of whack.

[jimbarry 0]

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I respect athletic accomplishments but I don't think anyone deserves to make millions based on athletic performance.

Well, if the NBA enterprise generates millions, who should the players' millions be transferred to, so that fans would be happy with players' salaries? The owners? Then we'd be in a discussion about the exploitation of the workers, and in a whole nuther discussion about racism from that angle.

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Same goes for the people who promote and televise these events.

Free markets. The NBA enterprise generates a product. The sale of that product generates revenue. Taking costs out of the revenue leaves millions in profits. Damn right the players should get those millions. Owners too.

It's far too simplistic to say that since an NBA player in a game exerts as much effort as my local trash collector in a day, they should be paid the same. The value of labor is not measured on effort, it's measured solely on what someone else is willing to pay for it.

If an owner is willing to pay a player millions, and a player agrees to play for that amount, then millions in salary is exactly correct.

[waltappel 1]

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Not sure where you are coming from. If I said that the NBA is mostly black because it's easier to train monkeys, then that would be racist.

The whole concept of spectator sports in this country is pretty much nothing but a joke. IMO, fans place far too much value on what amounts to a trained circus act.

I respect athletic accomplishments but I don't think anyone deserves to make millions based on athletic performance. Same goes for the people who promote and televise these events.

The fact that the NBA keeps a bunch of guys too busy to pursue their criminal careers full-time is worth something to our culture, but not worth nearly as much as fans are willing to pay.

I'd love to see people boycott these sporting events until the ticket prices and salaries more realistically reflect their value. No way should a professional basketball player or football player make more than a firefighter, trash collector, mail carrier, or teacher.

Walt

I wholly agree.

The fact that the NBA keeps a bunch of guys too busy to pursue their criminal careers full-time ...

Bahahahaha.

Right, the guy feeding the homeless at the shelter is a schuck; the guy dunking a ball or hitting a little ball 300 yards into a cup with the fewest strokes is what's worth celebrating. It's the foundation of this country to celebrate the wrong people for the wrong things, and then we create people like Michale Jackson, OJ, and a myriad of others and wonder why. The emphasis of our priorities is wayyyyy out of whack.

Agree 100%!!! I have also noticed that when a black NBA player beats the hell out of his wife or girlfriend and goes to jail, the press praises it as a good thing because it gives him "street cred".

Being old as dirt, I remember when that kind of thing was considered completely unacceptable whether committed by a pro athlete or anyone else. Now, it seems to be simply another entry on NBA players' resumes. The team owners probably love all the "free press" that those kinds of incidents generate.

I live in Houston and remember seeing the Rockets' coach and players whining on television after citizens voted to NOT fund a new stadium for them. To me, that is an unbelievable level of arrogance. Naturally, the City of Houston found a way to slide the new stadium through by promising that it would not cost the taxpayers a penny. Unbelievable. Personally, I think the city would have been better off paying the Rockets to get the hell out of town and go infect some other city.

Walt

[waltappel 1]

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I respect athletic accomplishments but I don't think anyone deserves to make millions based on athletic performance.

Well, if the NBA enterprise generates millions, who should the players' millions be transferred to, so that fans would be happy with players' salaries? The owners? Then we'd be in a discussion about the exploitation of the workers, and in a whole nuther discussion about racism from that angle.

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Same goes for the people who promote and televise these events.

Free markets. The NBA enterprise generates a product. The sale of that product generates revenue. Taking costs out of the revenue leaves millions in profits. Damn right the players should get those millions. Owners too.

It's far too simplistic to say that since an NBA player in a game exerts as much effort as my local trash collector in a day, they should be paid the same. The value of labor is not measured on effort, it's measured solely on what someone else is willing to pay for it.

If an owner is willing to pay a player millions, and a player agrees to play for that amount, then millions in salary is exactly correct.

I agree with what you are saying about the free market. My comments are more about the value that the consumers place on their product.

As for comparing the level of efforts put out by athletes vs. trash collectors, I think that is irrelevant. My point is that the trash collectors actually provide a valuable service to our society, whereas the professional athletes are simply entertainers.

I doubt it will ever happen, but I would love to see the day that Americans start placing a higher value on people who actually make the world a better place.

Walt

[EBSB52 0]

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Not sure where you are coming from. If I said that the NBA is mostly black because it's easier to train monkeys, then that would be racist.

The whole concept of spectator sports in this country is pretty much nothing but a joke. IMO, fans place far too much value on what amounts to a trained circus act.

I respect athletic accomplishments but I don't think anyone deserves to make millions based on athletic performance. Same goes for the people who promote and televise these events.

The fact that the NBA keeps a bunch of guys too busy to pursue their criminal careers full-time is worth something to our culture, but not worth nearly as much as fans are willing to pay.

I'd love to see people boycott these sporting events until the ticket prices and salaries more realistically reflect their value. No way should a professional basketball player or football player make more than a firefighter, trash collector, mail carrier, or teacher.

Walt

I wholly agree.

The fact that the NBA keeps a bunch of guys too busy to pursue their criminal careers full-time ...

Bahahahaha.

Right, the guy feeding the homeless at the shelter is a schuck; the guy dunking a ball or hitting a little ball 300 yards into a cup with the fewest strokes is what's worth celebrating. It's the foundation of this country to celebrate the wrong people for the wrong things, and then we create people like Michale Jackson, OJ, and a myriad of others and wonder why. The emphasis of our priorities is wayyyyy out of whack.

Agree 100%!!! I have also noticed that when a black NBA player beats the hell out of his wife or girlfriend and goes to jail, the press praises it as a good thing because it gives him "street cred".

Being old as dirt, I remember when that kind of thing was considered completely unacceptable whether committed by a pro athlete or anyone else. Now, it seems to be simply another entry on NBA players' resumes. The team owners probably love all the "free press" that those kinds of incidents generate.

I live in Houston and remember seeing the Rockets' coach and players whining on television after citizens voted to NOT fund a new stadium for them. To me, that is an unbelievable level of arrogance. Naturally, the City of Houston found a way to slide the new stadium through by promising that it would not cost the taxpayers a penny. Unbelievable. Personally, I think the city would have been better off paying the Rockets to get the hell out of town and go infect some other city.

Walt

Hell ya...strett cred

The team owners probably love all the "free press" that those kinds of incidents generate.


Unless you're Jerry Colangelo, moral monitor of the Phoenix Suns.

I live in Houston and remember seeing the Rockets' coach and players whining on television after citizens voted to NOT fund a new stadium for them. To me, that is an unbelievable level of arrogance. Naturally, the City of Houston found a way to slide the new stadium through by promising that it would not cost the taxpayers a penny.

That's what a POS this city is. There was Bank One Ballpark measure that wa voted down, the county board of Sup held a private midnight session to pass it.

[rehmwa 2]

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I doubt it will ever happen, but I would love to see the day that Americans start placing a higher value on people who actually make the world a better place.

Let's say the top 200 (random guess) NBA players make over a million a year....

So how much do the top 200 fireman and teachers in the US make per year? If you want a fair comparison, work it with the same numbers, you can't expect to apply a comment to a very small and elite (by whatever nutty definition you want) group to compare to a hugely populated groups like teachers.

The top 0.01% of every profession likely does very well. What's wrong with that?

I think professional sports is a kind of joke at these levels, but would rather have market forces as is than get some wierd kind of social manipulation to just satisfy a special interest groups's definition of 'fair'.

ESBD - As far as joking about 'facist' athletes. It's not a joke about fascism (other than they are ungodly rich and that seems to be a more contemporary source of the fascist label), just your broad-based fascination and passion with subjects that are in the end about specific individuals and your inability to take people one at a time in lieu of generalizations and simplifications and gross stereotyping. But at least you care about something even if it usually is only in the abstract most of the time.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[EBSB52 0]

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I doubt it will ever happen, but I would love to see the day that Americans start placing a higher value on people who actually make the world a better place.

Let's say the top 200 (random guess) NBA players make over a million a year....

So how much do the top 200 fireman and teachers in the US make per year? If you want a fair comparison, work it with the same numbers, you can't expect to apply a comment to a very small and elite (by whatever nutty definition you want) group to compare to a hugely populated groups like teachers.

The top 0.01% of every profession likely does very well. What's wrong with that?

I think professional sports is a kind of joke at these levels, but would rather have market forces as is than get some wierd kind of social manipulation to just satisfy a special interest groups's definition of 'fair'.

ESBD - As far as joking about 'facist' athletes. It's not a joke about fascism (other than they are ungodly rich and that seems to be a more contemporary source of the fascist label), just your broad-based fascination and passion with subjects that are in the end about specific individuals and your inability to take people one at a time in lieu of generalizations and simplifications and gross stereotyping. But at least you care about something even if it usually is only in the abstract most of the time.

ESBD - As far as joking about 'facist' athletes. It's not a joke about fascism (other than they are ungodly rich and that seems to be a more contemporary source of the fascist label), just your broad-based fascination and passion with subjects that are in the end about specific individuals and your inability to take people one at a time in lieu of generalizations and simplifications and gross stereotyping. But at least you care about something even if it usually is only in the abstract most of the time.


If this must be about me and not the assertions of some who think Nash was given the MVP via racism, as the thread started out to be, then I would comment on your inability to stick to a topic most of the time an resirt of typical conservative distraction tactics as opposed to answering some tough issues.

I have never implied a Fascist component to this thread's phenomenon. Being rich has nothing to do with being Fascist. Plenty of rich people are not Fascist. They could be classist and not Fascist. That's a very flatline criterion for Fascism that oversimplifies the definition. Primarily Fascism is the government's assignment of legislation to the corporations, and I don't see that in this topic. So if this must in turn be about you, you take issues that have zero to do with Fascism and joke about them to distract - then avoid the topics that have plenty to do with Fascism.

[EBSB52 0]

Oh, BTW, further getting this story back on topic, Nash scored 48 last night, 23 in the 3rd I believe. His team sucked and he wasn't a Jerk NaBitchski about it. He's a great guy and his team will rally next game. The refs were fucking the team and I think they let down, but he kept fighting.

[JohnRich 4]

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Must suck to have no argument against it and to have to resort to looking for spelling errors thru other than ignorance for defense of it.

You have grammar problems too.

Pardon me for being a language fascist.

My comment was not about this thread topic in particular, but rather about your propensity to label everything you don't like as "fascism".

[rehmwa 2]

ok, to stay on topic. I think Nash is a great player and a vote for him (and a few others) is likely a real vote based on skill and cries of racism are just pissy little babies and that card is too easily drawn when it's not warranted. He's a legitimate candicate and should be considered.

The mocking was about mocking you and your passions about wacky conspiracies. Not a conspiracy in itself. That alone is very fun so I need not play here any further.

Frankly, this thread and the one on smoking, we are greatly in line with each other (for the main topic), just not at the same decibel level. Frankly, I think you'd be a blast to talk with in person.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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Agree 100%!!! I have also noticed that when a black NBA player beats the hell out of his wife or girlfriend and goes to jail, the press praises it as a good thing because it gives him "street cred".

What world are you living in, exactly?

Phoenix dumped Jason Kidd for far less an offense, and he gained nothing for it. Sorry, that's bullshit. Athletes get away with DUI all the time in a jury trial, but wife beating, get serious.

As to your suggestion that athletes should be paid a market salary...they are. Shaq gets paid more than a fireman because he's much harder to replace, and people want to watch him play. Few fireman have as legitimate a claim to 'superman.'

[EBSB52 0]

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Must suck to have no argument against it and to have to resort to looking for spelling errors thru other than ignorance for defense of it.

You have grammar problems too.

Pardon me for being a language fascist.

My comment was not about this thread topic in particular, but rather about your propensity to label everything you don't like as "fascism".

You have grammar problems too.

I don't. I may rapid post and make spelling mistakes which I don't bother correcting, but it isn't illiteracy.

My comment was not about this thread topic in particular, but rather about your propensity to label everything you don't like as "fascism".


So you hijacked yet another thread to pull it off topic...... color me shocked.

[EBSB52 0]

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ok, to stay on topic. I think Nash is a great player and a vote for him (and a few others) is likely a real vote based on skill and cries of racism are just pissy little babies and that card is too easily drawn when it's not warranted. He's a legitimate candicate and should be considered.

The mocking was about mocking you and your passions about wacky conspiracies. Not a conspiracy in itself. That alone is very fun so I need not play here any further.

Frankly, this thread and the one on smoking, we are greatly in line with each other (for the main topic), just not at the same decibel level. Frankly, I think you'd be a blast to talk with in person.

The mocking was about mocking you and your passions about wacky conspiracies.

1. The US doesn't conspire anymore, they blanantly change the protocol and dare anyone to cross the line. So you are wrong about me again - I don't think there are nearly as many conspiracies as let's say 40-50 years ago.

2. Are you and John Rich related? You both seem to center your arguments around the messenger / author rather than the issue.... Ad Hominem.

Not a conspiracy in itself. That alone is very fun so I need not play here any further.

DOn't let the door hit ya in the ass.

Frankly, this thread and the one on smoking, we are greatly in line with each other (for the main topic), just not at the same decibel level. Frankly, I think you'd be a blast to talk with in person.


It's fine that we are on the same page, just curious why it matters who I am or what I'm about when it comes to substance of issues? In critical thinking, it's more important how you get to a given conclusion than the actual conclusion itself. The idea is that when a body of gov that makes a lot of decisons uses sound reasoning, they will "get it right" most of the time via that consistent sound reasoning.

[rehmwa 2]

I'll try again -

I'm not related to John - he seems decent enough albeit his delivery is a little harsh and he's very focused on certain issues (like a couple people in these forums and you are fully in that group too). What's the point of the comment and do you see the irony in that comment in the context of the rest of your message? I suspect each person on this board is decent in person. So what?

The substance of your posts would be much easier to work with if you weren't so angry all the time. I've said that to other posters as well. In this case, I didn't really care, so I made fun of it. That's how you personally effect the presentation of the substance of the post. I most cases, your content is lost in the blinding red haze of the delivery.

If you come off as an angry poster board wearer, people either despise, pity or laugh at you. And your message, no matter how good it is or how you came to it, is lost and it's no one's fault but your own.

Edit: as far as substance vs poster, most stuff in here is of extremely little importance in the big scheme. learning about the people behind them is much more satisfying IMO. But if you want to actually review my posts, I don't really think that saying I'm typical of picking at the poster rather than content is a fair assessment of my style. But yeah, true for this thread anyway, but you have to admit at some point that you are rather excitable and colorful in your writing.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants