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QuoteThen name one that isn't related to overpopulation.
Try looking up Free Trade and the financial situations that the WTO, IMF and World Bank force them into.
QuoteWhen will the Governments in these countries start to actually DO something to break this cycle of poverty?
When they are given the chance perhaps?
QuoteAll I have ever heard all my life is about people starving in countries in Africa. And all my life I've heard about how money is going to help. But it never seems to be enough. Why? How much money will it take to end world poverty?
It will take a hell of alot more money thats's a fact. The money sent there does help but aslong as these countires are paying more in debt repayments than they are on heath care, feeding and clothing the poor. What alot these countries need is a helping hand to get on their feet.
QuoteForgiving debt is not the solution.
Unless we do then I doubt they will EVER get themselves out of poverty. Is cancelling 3rd World going to affect you directly? If it's going to save lives then it's worth it, I for one cannot put a price on these people's lives.
Christ, the compassion in this thread is overwhelming, really touching.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Maybe i'm wrong, maybe it is all their fault and it's upto them to get of their own mess. My bad.
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QuoteQuoteThen name one that isn't related to overpopulation.
QuoteTry looking up Free Trade and the financial
Quotesituations that the WTO, IMF and World Bank force them into.
That's a very weak argument. Why would the World Bank force a country to accept loans when they know they are just going to default?QuoteWhen will the Governments in these countries start to actually DO something to break this cycle of poverty?
QuoteWhen they are given the chance perhaps?
You gotta be kidding me. That's the same argument thats been made for a very long time. The truth is that even though hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent on poverty worldwide for as long as I can remember, there's more poverty in the world today than ever before.QuoteAll I have ever heard all my life is about people starving in countries in Africa. And all my life I've heard about how money is going to help. But it never seems to be enough. Why? How much money will it take to end world poverty?
It will take a hell of alot more money thats's a fact.QuoteThe money sent there does help but aslong as these countires are paying more in debt repayments than they are on heath care, feeding and clothing the poor. What alot these countries need is a helping hand to get on their feet.
You say that as if these countries have never been given aid. What you fail to understand is that debts to these same countries have been forgiven before and it did no good because it was just a handout, not a hand up. Do you think if I gave a street person in the US $100,000, that most would take it and decide to use it for college tuition and make financial decisions which would lead towards a better life? How about $1,000,000. Think they would be broke in 5 years?QuoteForgiving debt is not the solution.
QuoteUnless we do then I doubt they will EVER get themselves out of poverty.
We have and they didn't.QuoteIs cancelling 3rd World going to affect you directly? If it's going to save lives then it's worth it, I for one cannot put a price on these people's lives.
Just curious where you think the money lent to these countries comes from?QuoteChrist, the compassion in this thread is overwhelming, really touching.
Nobody wants to see anyone suffer, least myself. But you can't save anybody nor solve any problem by simply throwing money at it. This was proven in the US when Clinton was forced to reform welfare. We were told it was cruel and degrading to require someone to actually work to earn money. Guess what, we have fewer poor people because the expectation and promise of a free ride through life is no longer as easy as it used to be.QuoteMaybe i'm wrong, maybe it is all their fault and it's upto them to get of their own mess. My bad.
It's up to the leaders of these countries to put forward a plan to use the money to improve the lives of their citizens before they should get another dime IMO. That's real compassion.
Teach a man to fish..etc.
I do see some of your points and maybe i'm being a little too optimistic but these are possibly the biggest steps towards stopping world poverty. I maybe giving the G7 more credited than they deserve but it is still early days and the plans are not yet drawn up on how it will be tackled, the meetings so far have been to see which of the G7-8 are up for it.
Depending on the way it goes as far as the plans they draw up to get these countries back on their feet, if they were ever on them, then that'll be the time to start saying 'this will work' 'that will never work' etc. But, until then, this is great news for world poverty.
One word, Bank, banks are in it to make money.
The countries the World Bank looks out for are the ones with the most money. Check Argentina for a case study.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, long day, I too don't think the solution is to throw more and more money at them and trust their governments to manage it, that wont work for sure. That's why I mentioned above that it's important to wait and hear what plans and conditions they come up with, the criteria which the countries have to meet to recieve the aid and what plans of action G7 will come up with in terms of ensuring the money is spent in the best manner.
I do realise that completetly, but this situation has never happened before, again I got a bit ahead of myself earlier as we don't know how all this will pan out yet.
Completely agree, that is what they are in talks about at the moment. But I feel that you saying earlier that cancelling the debt is not the way to do it is not to be ruled out completely, if like you said, they put forward a plan to use the money, then these countries need the debt cancelling anyway so they can get back on their feet, otherwise we will have to keep pumping more and more money in until they do because it is going to take a long time before these countries can start to build a decent economy.
Who knows, one day they might be able to pay it back, maybe i'm just a dreamer.
Still, either way, these talks have the potential to do great things if done right. Exciting times from my point of view.
(Just realised when I wrote that, again we are trusting the politicians to do the right thing, took the wind out my sails that did, hehe)
Edited for grammar etc.
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Depending on the way it goes as far as the plans they draw up to get these countries back on their feet, if they were ever on them, then that'll be the time to start saying 'this will work' 'that will never work' etc. But, until then, this is great news for world poverty.
QuoteThat's a very weak argument. Why would the World Bank force a country to accept loans when they know they are just going to default?
One word, Bank, banks are in it to make money.
The countries the World Bank looks out for are the ones with the most money. Check Argentina for a case study.
QuoteYou gotta be kidding me. That's the same argument thats been made for a very long time. The truth is that even though hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent on poverty worldwide for as long as I can remember, there's more poverty in the world today than ever before.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, long day, I too don't think the solution is to throw more and more money at them and trust their governments to manage it, that wont work for sure. That's why I mentioned above that it's important to wait and hear what plans and conditions they come up with, the criteria which the countries have to meet to recieve the aid and what plans of action G7 will come up with in terms of ensuring the money is spent in the best manner.
QuoteYou say that as if these countries have never been given aid. What you fail to understand is that debts to these same countries have been forgiven before and it did no good because it was just a handout, not a hand up.
I do realise that completetly, but this situation has never happened before, again I got a bit ahead of myself earlier as we don't know how all this will pan out yet.
QuoteIt's up to the leaders of these countries to put forward a plan to use the money to improve the lives of their citizens before they should get another dime IMO. That's real compassion.
Teach a man to fish..etc.
Completely agree, that is what they are in talks about at the moment. But I feel that you saying earlier that cancelling the debt is not the way to do it is not to be ruled out completely, if like you said, they put forward a plan to use the money, then these countries need the debt cancelling anyway so they can get back on their feet, otherwise we will have to keep pumping more and more money in until they do because it is going to take a long time before these countries can start to build a decent economy.
Who knows, one day they might be able to pay it back, maybe i'm just a dreamer.
Still, either way, these talks have the potential to do great things if done right. Exciting times from my point of view.
(Just realised when I wrote that, again we are trusting the politicians to do the right thing, took the wind out my sails that did, hehe)
Edited for grammar etc.
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Erroll 53
Quote(Just realised when I wrote that, again we are trusting the politicians to do the right thing, took the wind out my sails that did, hehe)
Quote
That is the single most important factor. Corrupt politicians. Nepotism. Croniesm. Fatcats looking out for themselves, their starving countrymen be damned.
The King of Swaziland is about to take his 13th bride. He has more palaces than the entire British royal family. He has just bought one of the most expensive cars in the world while almost a quarter of his people rely on food-aid to survive. Read more about Swaziland here and more on Africa in general here.
Some excerpts from the above links:
Most African nations suffer from military dictatorships, corruption, civil unrest and war....
The article neglects the role of failed development policies by multilateral institutions and claims that "Africans are poor because their leaders keep them that way."
This Financial Times article comments on corrupt joint ventures between oil multinationals and the authoritarian Equatorial Guinean government. The majority of the population lives in deep poverty, even though the country ranks sixth in the world in income per person.
In previous elections, he (Mugabe) has withheld food, to create popular desperation, then "bought" political support by exchanging provisions for votes.
Unless the debt-relief is closely linked to some checks and balances, it will be to no avail and it will only serve to make the fatcats fatter.
I was actually thinking about the politicians in G7 at the time, hehe. Blind leading the blind.
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Gawain 0
Quote...and your answer is...fuck em all??
No. But my answer does not include throwing more money at the situation. The money, and assets are already there. There needs to be a serious effort to change the "minds" of those in control to unplug the cluster-f*ck they've created in their own back yard.
Forgiving the debt, and opening the doors for more financial aid is a recipe of zero results (look at what's been done so far, nada). Money will not solve this problem.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
So what is your answer then?
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ahegeman 0
REAL free trade would do wonders to reduce poverty in the world. They could leverage their lower cost of living into cheap imports into the industrial world, and begin to build up wealth that way. It would simply allow them to follow the same industrial progression the US went through. Industry will lead to markets and wealth, trade unions will form and expand that wealth to the workers, and everyone will be better off in the long run. Short term it will hurt many people, but it seems to be the only sustainable solution short of ever-lasting welfare.
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There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry
Gawain 0
QuoteSo what is your answer then?
Use overt and covert tactics, political, economic and unconventional to remove the elements that are siphoning the money/aid before it reaches the population that need it or enterprises that need it.
Additionally, stop sending money, period. Instead begin sending expertise/know-how to educate and consult in the areas that need development (charge for time as necessary, no free rides) -- "teach a man to fish" etc.
For us to do this serves several advantages, not to mention that it could be used as an alternative economic engine to compete against China and Europe (EU). Potentially very benficial to the USA and the western hemisphere.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
AdD 1
QuoteAdditionally, stop sending money, period.
Cancelling debit means they don't pay us money...
Life is ez
On the dz
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3 rigs and an airstream
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream
jakee 1,280
QuoteSure there are.
#1. Being so lazy and not being willing to get off your ass and WORK. Thats a damn good reason.
Yeah I can agree with that.
'Hey, you there. Yeah you in Darfur, I'm talking to you ya lazy fucker. Ever think about getting a damn job instead of lazing around in a cushy refugee camp? Nah didn't think so. Same goes for you twats in Banda Aceh as well.'
Come on Ron, the world these people live in is not the same world that we live in. Its not even close.
When you can't eat you can't work, when you can't drink you can't work. When western countries tell your landowners how to 'improve' food production by using chemicals and machinery and only 5% of their current workforce, well you get my drift.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Valid point.
Maybe they would if they were given the chance to be educated etc.
Good point! Didn't think of it that way.
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