champu 1 #1 November 9, 2004 this particular video has been released for a little over a month now, but still pretty cool imho... http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/media/VideoInfo.cfm?VideoID=34 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #2 November 9, 2004 Quotethis particular video has been released for a little over a month now, but still pretty cool imho... http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/media/VideoInfo.cfm?VideoID=34 Hi Champu Do you think Thel Mortar will be as reliable against mortars as the patriatic sp? missle was against the Scuds during desert shield/storm? What was the success rate of the patriatic sp? during desert shield/storm. Nice pictures R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #3 November 9, 2004 Why ask if it will be as reliable if you don't even know the reliability of the patriot missle during desert storm? I know why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hipwrddude 0 #4 November 9, 2004 Declassified reports found the Patriot missile batteries never took out a single Scud missile--the Scud missiles either disintegrated, predetonated or hit. Thanks for the vid. Another test with a laser destroying artillery rounds was even more impressive. As a former mortarman and Forward Observer (I'd call the rain of fire on the badguys-air, arty, naval guns, etc.) I feel comforted that one day our troops will have protection from the same. You're always the starter in your own life! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #5 November 9, 2004 hey slug, Well first I need to point out that THEL and Patriot are two very different creatures, but even holding each to their own theatre THEL has a number of advantages over Patriot: -much higher resistance to electronic countermeasures -instantanous time-on-target once fire-control tracking begins (target desctruction takes a few seconds) -cost-per-kill of less than $3000 -an impressive track record on the test range including succussful interception of multiple supersonic targets in the same encounter. Basically, if you can get line of sight to a moving object for more than 3-4 seconds, there's no reason THEL can't destroy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #6 November 9, 2004 PM me what you think you know. or tell everyone on this thread don't be shy this is SC. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #7 November 9, 2004 The Patriot wasn't designed to counter missiles. Just like the Scud, however, it was effective when used in the Gulf War as a psychological weapon. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hipwrddude 0 #8 November 9, 2004 The Patriot's purpose: http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/ Patriot is a long-range, all-altitude, all-weather air defence system to counter tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and advanced aircraft. True, it won't counter artillery or small stuff. You're always the starter in your own life! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #9 November 9, 2004 QuoteThe Patriot wasn't designed to counter missiles. Just like the Scud, however, it was effective when used in the Gulf War as a psychological weapon. mh Your a wise man author. To bad it also gave a false sence of security to 15-18 national guard/reserves and that were in a barracks in dahran Saudi that got hit by a scud. I know I was a couple 100 yds away and wathed the scud come down. lots of advance notice but we were protected by the patriatic so we didn't need no stinkin low tech bunkers or a whole in the sand. Psychological weapon good,phycological defense sucks like walking intoa machine gun with a plastic key to heaven for defense. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #10 November 9, 2004 QuoteThe Patriot's purpose: http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/ Patriot is a long-range, all-altitude, all-weather air defence system to counter tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and advanced aircraft. True, it won't counter artillery or small stuff. Hi Hip During desert storm the earlier model patriot didn't fulfull it's purpose in spit of the video they showed on CNN hitting the scud in daharan saudi. First hand knowledge from a eye witness To bad the Scud got a lucky shot. See previous post . The cypress will only work if its turned on and I don't know if it's 100%. I'd rather rely on low tech jumping pull or die, War sirens go off to signal incoming, find a hole. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paulipod 0 #11 November 9, 2004 As long as that laser knows the difference between a mortar round and a British helicopter Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #12 November 9, 2004 QuoteAs long as that laser knows the difference between a mortar round and a British helicopter War is like construction big boy's with big toy's shit happens. But in both jobs it can be big shit due to the size of toy's. After Desert storm our planes shot down some UN/american choppers I forget which due to human error. I think they tried to blame that one on the awac's operator. There's also some nasty audio of a american chopper fireing on their own troops during Desert storm.(we don't discrimanate against canucks brits or civies). The dude flying the chopper was the Squadron commander and wanted to fly a combat mission against sitting ducks with his men. He had been ordered to stay behind his desk. He was a little rusty and got confused and shot at the wrong target. Never heard what happened to him. He did feel bad about his error in judgement you can hear it in his voice after he took the shot. War sucks since the beginning of time and we're still doing it. A quote from a change of command ceromony " in spite of what some people think....The military is the oldest profession" R.I.P. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #13 November 10, 2004 Quote I know I was a couple 100 yds away and wathed the scud come down. lots of advance notice but we were protected by the patriatic so we didn't need no stinkin low tech bunkers or a whole in the sand. having been under regular random mortor fire rather recently i'm sorry for your loss, but failure to seek cover when you KNOW you have incomming fire leaves no blame but those under fire..... and not a technological system you 'expect' to work.... "i expect my main to work... i guess i wont bother to bring my reserve..."____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #14 November 10, 2004 QuoteQuote I know I was a couple 100 yds away and wathed the scud come down. lots of advance notice but we were protected by the patriatic so we didn't need no stinkin low tech bunkers or a whole in the sand. having been under regular random mortor fire rather recently i'm sorry for your loss, but failure to seek cover when you KNOW you have incomming fire leaves no blame but those under fire..... and not a technological system you 'expect' to work.... "i expect my main to work... i guess i wont bother to bring my reserve..." I agree with you 100% But the powers to be decided for some reason there wasn't a need for bunkers, ditch's, sand bags nothing. Before we went over there we asked about basements, bunkers etc and was told no. That meant to me that the risk was minimal at that location. So we figured saudi is a big country a scud is a terror weapon not to accurate play the odds. (Kind of like nam. We were on the air force side of base Army side always got hit.Didn't know until we got there that we were located in Scud alley. As soon as we got to the office wtf? I was pissed A bunch of west point REMF's with their rings up their butt After the scud wiped out the barracks the air raid sirens went off again a couple hours later, I just rolled over in my second floor room and went to sleep The only other option would be to run around in circles in the desert in a random pattern to try and dodge a random shot. Slept like a babyWaited until the "war" was over, played my ace and got the hell out of dodge. No Commercial flights available. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #15 November 11, 2004 Quote I agree with you 100% But the powers to be decided for some reason there wasn't a need for bunkers, ditch's, sand bags nothing. Before we went over there we asked about basements, bunkers etc and was told no. That meant to me that the risk was minimal at that location. some one should have been court marshalled for that....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #16 November 11, 2004 QuoteQuote I agree with you 100% But the powers to be decided for some reason there wasn't a need for bunkers, ditch's, sand bags nothing. Before we went over there we asked about basements, bunkers etc and was told no. That meant to me that the risk was minimal at that location. some one should have been court marshalled for that.... Well after the war was over the families of the people that got killed in the barracks found out the real deal. Don't know how that was resolved They were either N/G or reserves. In my situation by the time I made it back to my office in the states the cover up had already started. The DOA wanted me to file a offical accident report, we told them F.Y. My boss filled it out showed it to me signed it and let me review it. I knew what was going to happen so i made a copy.The paperwork went up the chain of command. A couple yr's later I requested a copy of the report under the FOIA. Request denied because soliders lives may be at stake. I finally got a copy of the report it was mostly redacted but I compared it to my origional, Some of the facts had been changed and initalted befor the full bird signed it. The report was buried, in my situation what I saw and experienced never happenedOfficer's (gentlemen and ladies) got to really screw up big time to get in trouble, there's a chain of command to give them plausable deniability. Usually Worst officers ask to be reassigned or retire. OTOH Enlisted swine go to jail. Most G.I.'s know this, I think R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
slug 1 #10 November 9, 2004 QuoteThe Patriot's purpose: http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/ Patriot is a long-range, all-altitude, all-weather air defence system to counter tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and advanced aircraft. True, it won't counter artillery or small stuff. Hi Hip During desert storm the earlier model patriot didn't fulfull it's purpose in spit of the video they showed on CNN hitting the scud in daharan saudi. First hand knowledge from a eye witness To bad the Scud got a lucky shot. See previous post . The cypress will only work if its turned on and I don't know if it's 100%. I'd rather rely on low tech jumping pull or die, War sirens go off to signal incoming, find a hole. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #11 November 9, 2004 As long as that laser knows the difference between a mortar round and a British helicopter Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #12 November 9, 2004 QuoteAs long as that laser knows the difference between a mortar round and a British helicopter War is like construction big boy's with big toy's shit happens. But in both jobs it can be big shit due to the size of toy's. After Desert storm our planes shot down some UN/american choppers I forget which due to human error. I think they tried to blame that one on the awac's operator. There's also some nasty audio of a american chopper fireing on their own troops during Desert storm.(we don't discrimanate against canucks brits or civies). The dude flying the chopper was the Squadron commander and wanted to fly a combat mission against sitting ducks with his men. He had been ordered to stay behind his desk. He was a little rusty and got confused and shot at the wrong target. Never heard what happened to him. He did feel bad about his error in judgement you can hear it in his voice after he took the shot. War sucks since the beginning of time and we're still doing it. A quote from a change of command ceromony " in spite of what some people think....The military is the oldest profession" R.I.P. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #13 November 10, 2004 Quote I know I was a couple 100 yds away and wathed the scud come down. lots of advance notice but we were protected by the patriatic so we didn't need no stinkin low tech bunkers or a whole in the sand. having been under regular random mortor fire rather recently i'm sorry for your loss, but failure to seek cover when you KNOW you have incomming fire leaves no blame but those under fire..... and not a technological system you 'expect' to work.... "i expect my main to work... i guess i wont bother to bring my reserve..."____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #14 November 10, 2004 QuoteQuote I know I was a couple 100 yds away and wathed the scud come down. lots of advance notice but we were protected by the patriatic so we didn't need no stinkin low tech bunkers or a whole in the sand. having been under regular random mortor fire rather recently i'm sorry for your loss, but failure to seek cover when you KNOW you have incomming fire leaves no blame but those under fire..... and not a technological system you 'expect' to work.... "i expect my main to work... i guess i wont bother to bring my reserve..." I agree with you 100% But the powers to be decided for some reason there wasn't a need for bunkers, ditch's, sand bags nothing. Before we went over there we asked about basements, bunkers etc and was told no. That meant to me that the risk was minimal at that location. So we figured saudi is a big country a scud is a terror weapon not to accurate play the odds. (Kind of like nam. We were on the air force side of base Army side always got hit.Didn't know until we got there that we were located in Scud alley. As soon as we got to the office wtf? I was pissed A bunch of west point REMF's with their rings up their butt After the scud wiped out the barracks the air raid sirens went off again a couple hours later, I just rolled over in my second floor room and went to sleep The only other option would be to run around in circles in the desert in a random pattern to try and dodge a random shot. Slept like a babyWaited until the "war" was over, played my ace and got the hell out of dodge. No Commercial flights available. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #15 November 11, 2004 Quote I agree with you 100% But the powers to be decided for some reason there wasn't a need for bunkers, ditch's, sand bags nothing. Before we went over there we asked about basements, bunkers etc and was told no. That meant to me that the risk was minimal at that location. some one should have been court marshalled for that....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #16 November 11, 2004 QuoteQuote I agree with you 100% But the powers to be decided for some reason there wasn't a need for bunkers, ditch's, sand bags nothing. Before we went over there we asked about basements, bunkers etc and was told no. That meant to me that the risk was minimal at that location. some one should have been court marshalled for that.... Well after the war was over the families of the people that got killed in the barracks found out the real deal. Don't know how that was resolved They were either N/G or reserves. In my situation by the time I made it back to my office in the states the cover up had already started. The DOA wanted me to file a offical accident report, we told them F.Y. My boss filled it out showed it to me signed it and let me review it. I knew what was going to happen so i made a copy.The paperwork went up the chain of command. A couple yr's later I requested a copy of the report under the FOIA. Request denied because soliders lives may be at stake. I finally got a copy of the report it was mostly redacted but I compared it to my origional, Some of the facts had been changed and initalted befor the full bird signed it. The report was buried, in my situation what I saw and experienced never happenedOfficer's (gentlemen and ladies) got to really screw up big time to get in trouble, there's a chain of command to give them plausable deniability. Usually Worst officers ask to be reassigned or retire. OTOH Enlisted swine go to jail. Most G.I.'s know this, I think R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
