Does the american election affect the rest of the world?

[SabreDave 0]

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I don't disagree with you. And I DO take it up with my leaders. My question is do you take it up with YOUR leaders, or just complain on the internet?

Yes I do make a habit of being quite vocal in my country for my country, absolutely. As for complaining on the internet........my posts so far have all been direct responses to your posts. You posted/complained, I wrote my opinion, that simple. When I made that last post your post stating that the US way is not perfect had not been posted.
I am glad you do see it, really. That was my whole point because it seemed like you were of the opinion that you guys do it right, everyone else does it wrong.
As for standing up, well that could be a whole thread by itself as things such as trade GDP, trade, population, trade etc...... must be taken into account. Again when the bully is 10 times your size it is alot friggin harder to stand up for yourself. To be that bully and say stand up is very, very easy
As China takes off and becomes the next powerhouse economy of the world and the US becomes more and more dependant on this relationship you may just get to see what I'm talking about, say in 10-15 years.
AS for securing oil, well I live in the richest oil province in Canada where our oil sands reserves are friggin huge, we actually supply quite a bit of petroleum products to you folks down south.

SabreDave

[jimbo69 0]

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Our country sold all our airforce jets, boy this pissed off america.......and we sold most of them to U.S. civillians as far as i know.

just wnted to let you know that New Zealand has yet to sell any of its fighters to any countries (strike masters and airmacchis)they are all still in storage in the south island (blenheim)only one of each is kept in airworthy condition at ohakea air force base in the north island for potential buyers none have been sold to any american civillians unless they were sold in the last two days...swoops jimbo

[jimbo69 0]

(strike masters and airmacchis)

sorry skyhawks and airmacchis nz stoped useing strikemasters in early ninetys..

[kmcguffee 0]

Europe would have a lot more economic power to influence the US if some of the larger European countries would not have drifted so far into Socialism. They wouldn't need the EU to compete with the US if they would get rid of policies like the 35 hour work week, mandatory 60 days of vacation, and dumping all of your government's money into welfare programs that perpetuate dependency and reward inaction.

You've got to work to earn influence in the world. Nobody is going to hand it to you on a silver platter just because you're nice and feel shat upon.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[bigway 4]

sorry, for that false information, i thought they had been sold off 2 years ago.
My mistake.
What are they doing with them then? are they still selling them off? why are they in storage?
Cheers mate.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Sebastian1 0]

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They wouldn't need the EU to compete with the US if they would get rid of policies like the 35 hour work week, mandatory 60 days of vacation, and dumping all of your government's money into welfare programs that perpetuate dependency and reward inaction.
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Yyou are kidding here, right?
35 hrs/week: where would that be?
60 days of vacation:
tell me where itis, i immediately will go and live there.

if this not a joke you might have to correct your views onEurope somehow

Seb

[mccurley 0]

Our country sold all our airforce jets, boy this pissed off america.......and we sold most of them to U.S. civillians as far as i know***

Where the heck did you get this info from, they are still sitting here in mothballs because they are to old and obsolete to be of any use to any country that couls use a good fighter, and too expensive for the poorer countries to buy.

I am pretty sure if they were to be sold to civilians we would have had it all over the news by now!!!

Or are you just baiting the yanks agian?

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[dingley 0]

Maybe they SHOULD sell them to citizens if your pilots are going to continue playing target practice with schools!

[mccurley 0]

Not my pilots, I'm in New Zealand!!

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[dingley 0]

D'oh!

[bigway 4]

about 2 years ago i remember reading that they would be sold off. I thought i remembered them saying that their were alot of citizens interested in purchasing.
I though by reading this that the process was under way.
Obviously i am wrong, and maybe i remember what i read wrong as well.
As far as baiting the americans again, well you can look at it that way if you like
apologies for my wrong information.


You are from tauranga? you luck bastard, it must be sunny these days. I have a section down in bowentown. it is freezing here in the uk.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[feuergnom 22]

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Europe would have a lot more economic power to influence the US if some of the larger European countries would not have drifted so far into Socialism.

which countries are you talking about?

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if they would get rid of policies like the 35 hour work week, mandatory 60 days of vacation,

must be someplace else but definitely not europe

if i am mistaken, please take your time to correct me. i'd be more than happy to live in a place like that

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[kmcguffee 0]

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Europe would have a lot more economic power to influence the US if some of the larger European countries would not have drifted so far into Socialism.

which countries are you talking about?



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if they would get rid of policies like the 35 hour work week, mandatory 60 days of vacation,

must be someplace else but definitely not europe

France
http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/fp/cusf/analysis/workweek.htm

Germany
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040716-013432-3120r.htm

Various other countries working towards the goal of a 35 hour work week:

http://www.web.net/32hours/europe.htm

Here is an article on vacation days required in Europe:

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=21769

Sixty was a little high but you get the point. Although several men that I have worked with in Switzerland get 60 days of vacation a year. Apparently it is not mandatory but some get it. Everytime we try to do something with these guys half of them are on vacation. Plan your moves now.

You guys should know this stuff. Remember, I'm the dumb American.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[rhys 0]

america does affect the rest of the word. sad but true.

i would like to go to america some time to meet some people because all i see of america is voilence and greed!

when the rest of the word decided to make the planet last a little longer (the kyoto proticol) america said fuck you guys we like oversised piece of shit cars and fossil fuel power stations etc.

when the rest of the world said don't attack iraq america said fuck you we want that oil!

i say fuck you america!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[jimbo69 0]

come on rhys getting a bit heavy there,we can only vote for who we want to be president,i can see where you come from but dont blame america for white house politics.we didn,t all vote for bush...keep up that trash talkj and i will have to come over there and kick your ass.......jimbo.....

[jimbo69 0]

just wanted to let you know that this poll is rubbish(as there is no point to it)you just want conflict and arguments.don,t blame america for your insecurities,as i said we are not all republican...

[crozby 0]

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i would like to go to america some time to meet some people because all i see of america is voilence and greed!

Well get off your backside and go there on a skydiving holiday. The people are great, the food is .. umm.. plentiful and the skydiving is better than awsome.

[feuergnom 22]

thanks for the stats - and thanks that you realized that 60 days was way to high

still i'm missing something: where did europe as a whole move towards socialism?
my guess is - the stereotypes of cold war and mccarthy are still deeply embedded in "american" minds. that everything "left" from a conservative view is labeled "communist" and therefore it must be condemned


as for working only 35 hours a week: companies alsways complain that the cost of labour is to high and that they have to cut down hours etc. the outcome: less hours working means less money. so you end up with two or three macjobs, working 60 or more hours a week and still being unable to make enough cash for you and your family

so europe is definitely not the "sacred land" with tons of days of etc

and btw: i didn't say you are a dumb american,or that americans are dumb in general. i simply don't like the idea to put everybody in the same pot....


edit to add: i don't think that the average guy who voted republican is dumb either. it just worries a lot of people that it seems that the majority of americans voted for beliefs/morals. maybe that was out of a lack of choice?
i don't now. i' just an uninformed european

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[bigway 4]

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ust wanted to let you know that this poll is rubbish(as there is no point to it)

Oh, what a shame!.
The point to this post was to ask a question so some people in the states might have actually stopped and thought about what is going on outside their country and how their elections affect the rest of us., before election day.

Now, saying this, i am well aware that these forums would not have changed the outcome of peoples vote but would like to think that at least one person stopped and thought about the question that was asked.....Does the american election affect the rest of the world?

Now iif you think that is a stupid question with no point, you are entitled to that.
My peers and my childhood in new zealand, myself and most kids i knew grew up idolising america, americans and wanting to live like americans and what we saw on television. I think the New Zealand youths were very americanised when i was growing up. I am 26 now. I do not know anyone in my country that likes america or the american way. How things have changed. (apart from us jumpers that are just jelous of yankee skydiving).

So for people to go from loving th U.S.A. to hating it all in 10 years, how are our children and their children going to react to the U.S.A.?
How much will this world turn against the states in the next 30-40 years? This is why i wanted you guys to maybe stop and think about how and if you affect the rest of the world. the republicans of your country are isolating themselves in this world and they are taking you democrats along with them.

Now if you want to think i am just trying to rubbish america or wind you up, you are wrong!

I have no insecurities that concern you jimbo, and i was never trying to make this a personal thread, but that seems to be the way you like to take it. You have a interest in new zealand. Does it not suck that when you are there that you have to defend to people you dont know that you are a good guy and you dont like bush, when you meet that person in the pub, that finds out your american and asks all the typical questions that are asked of americans. when i grew up and met an american, everyone was like' wow, what a cool country'. Not anymore. It will only get worse as well.
I never wanted conflict, i just wanted voters to ask themselves this question before they went to the polls.
Is their anything wrong wit that?

Now sorry for the rant

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[kmcguffee 0]

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still i'm missing something: where did europe as a whole move towards socialism?
my guess is - the stereotypes of cold war and mccarthy are still deeply embedded in "american" minds. that everything "left" from a conservative view is labeled "communist" and therefore it must be condemned

I didn't say that Europe as a whole moved towards socialism. I said that some of the larger sountries did. I also didn't mention Communism. Communism is a militant leftist form of socialism.

Socialism in its purest form is collective (state) ownership of the means of production and distribution. It's main purpose is to establish a system of cooperation instead of competition and to emphasize the collective instead of the individual. This usually manifests itself as some type of redistribution of wealth through welfare (the US) or other type of social programs. Socialism sounds great on the surface but has some very negative effects on the country as a whole in practice. When you redistribute wealth in a society you are punishing the successful and rewarding the failures. It doesn't really encourage hard work. Some people are not going to try very hard to succeed as long as they have a safety net in place for when they fail. The US has some socialist programs but not nearly like France, Germany, Sweden, or Swizterland. When the EU really gets up and running you are going to see some big time socialism. The UK is already balking at the idea of footing the bill for some of the less prosperous countries.

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it just worries a lot of people that it seems that the majority of americans voted for beliefs/morals.

We voted based on our beliefs/morals because they are important to us (at least to some of us). Some felt that they were being crapped on by the "do anything as long as it feels good" crowd. I don't know why it worries you. Socialism, capitalism are beliefs too.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[dingley 0]

Well, Bigway, I understand where you're coming from but I don't think that this forum changes anyone's views, either. Fun though, isn't it?

Of course the U.S. election affects us all. However, it affects the poor bastards who live there most. I have great sympathy with those who didn't vote for Bush, but also for many of those who did.

I read an article recently that offered a great analogy. It suggested that this election was like the French revolution in reverse. Many of the poor, and those who'd lost jobs in the last term, were still going to vote Republican. Of course, some of those put their faith first but, in economical terms, it was like the peasants coming out on the streets to insist on more rights and priviledges for the aristocracy.

You've had two Presidents from one oil-rich Texan dynasty, and Bush's re-election will mean selling off even more of the family silver in order to line the pockets of the Corporations.

Socialsim vs Capitalism...we (Britain) have a mixed economy, with an ample safety net for those without capital. To me, socialism means we all own capital, or the means of production, whatever you want to call it. Capitalism means that the wealth is concentrated at the top, and owned by an elite, whose beliefs and morals you have to live by (These are crude generalisations, but I'm in a bit of a hurry).

As has been said many times before, the American dream is just that. It just won't happen for the vast majority of people, so why not vote for a system that allows a bit of competition, but ensures that everyone shares in the NATION'S wealth?

This argument about holidays makes me laugh. Who, in their right mind, would prefer to spend all their waking hours working for a Corporation to taking time off? Most people don't work for the public good, they work for the accumulation of private wealth, and it's rarely THEIR private wealth.

I, too, remember a time when America was a bright, shiny beacon of hope, but that was then. Recent events have thrown the book open, and the world has seen what it's really about.

People have become less open to the spread of U.S. culture, and the export of feral capitalism, and are now viewing it with suspicion. If the election has done anything in terms of influencing the outside world, I suspect that it's prompted a good few people to draw a line in the sand and say 'thanks, but no thanks'.

[crozby 0]

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This argument about holidays makes me laugh. Who, in their right mind, would prefer to spend all their waking hours working for a Corporation to taking time off? Most people don't work for the public good, they work for the accumulation of private wealth, and it's rarely THEIR private wealth.

In Europe we have a higher GDP than the States, so working lots of hours and taking sod-all holiday isn't that great for the economy either.

[PeteH 0]

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Europe would have a lot more economic power to influence the US if some of the larger European countries would not have drifted so far into Socialism. They wouldn't need the EU to compete with the US if they would get rid of policies like the 35 hour work week, mandatory 60 days of vacation, and dumping all of your government's money into welfare programs that perpetuate dependency and reward inaction.

Have you already forgotten steel tariffs?
I believe it wasn't the EU who tried to protect European steel market from cheap American steel the more working Americans made.

Do you have any idea how much US government supports farmers? Both EU and US support their farmers with huge amounts of money.
Third world farmers suffer because of government supported western food dumped on the global market.
And western people have to pay higher prices for food because of this.

Most EU countries use more money on welfare for people than US, but don't forget welfare that US government gives to corporations.

I don't know what it really means, but some economists think Finland is the most competitive country in the world.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/13/news/international/competition.reut/


I guess we are doing something right in this socialistic country, where I only work for 37.5 hours a week and have 5 weeks vacation a year.

[dreamsville 0]

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I, too, remember a time when America was a bright, shiny beacon of hope, but that was then. Recent events have thrown the book open, and the world has seen what it's really about.

People have become less open to the spread of U.S. culture, and the export of feral capitalism, and are now viewing it with suspicion. If the election has done anything in terms of influencing the outside world, I suspect that it's prompted a good few people to draw a line in the sand and say 'thanks, but no thanks'.

/quote.

But they're still fighting to get in (immigration)!

Also, part of globalization means that we buy even more of other peoples' stuff.
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[Gawain 0]

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Europe would have a lot more economic power to influence the US if some of the larger European countries would not have drifted so far into Socialism. They wouldn't need the EU to compete with the US if they would get rid of policies like the 35 hour work week, mandatory 60 days of vacation, and dumping all of your government's money into welfare programs that perpetuate dependency and reward inaction.

You've got to work to earn influence in the world. Nobody is going to hand it to you on a silver platter just because you're nice and feel shat upon.

To ride on these coattails for a moment, I also believe that many of the coalition governments that must be maintained have an affect as well. Yes, there are benefits to having 4, 5, 10 political parties vying for power, but there are also detrimental consequences as well. There ends up being no clear majority to set a direction for a given country. The common denominators end up being few, and far between. This furthers the perceived need for an "EU" and Euro monetary system -- things which wouldn't be needed if there weren't as many socialized programs to maintain.

Having said that, it further explains why the world's largest economy, most powerful nation-state has the influence it has. China is in a similar position, except the model is somewhat reversed from Europe.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!