pajarito 0 #76 September 16, 2004 Quote5. How has God punished those who have no knowledge of him? “Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land” (2 Kings 17:26). QuoteNew International Version (NIV) It was reported to the king of Assyria: “The people you deported and resettled in the towns of Samaria do not know what the god of that country requires. He has sent lions among them, which are killing them off, because the people do not know what he requires. 2 Kings 17:26 QuoteThe king of Assyria imported foreign captives to inhabit the “towns of Samaria” (i.e. the entire northern kingdom) in order to destroy any remaining nationalism. Intermarriage between Israelites not taken to Assyria and foreigners brought to the land of Israel produced the people called the “Samaritans.” The result was a mixture of foreign religions and cultural traditions with Hebrew customs and faith. By New Testament times, however, many Samaritans had left their pagan ways and developed a faith based exclusively on the Pentateuch (first five books of the Bible). Jesus witnessed to a Samaritan woman, speaking of the incompleteness of Samaritan traditions. Later many Samaritans became believers in Christ through Philip’s ministry. In reference to the title of your question, I would question the assumption that they had no knowledge of God. I believe that they did as does everyone in their hearts. They just rejected the one true god for pagan false ones. Again, however, this illustrates the harsh judgments of God against sin in the Old Testament which are no longer needed now because of the sacrificial atonement of Jesus. You have to keep in mind that everything has a purpose. As explained above, Samaritans eventually became followers of Christ due to this long sequence of events. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #77 September 16, 2004 Quote6. How should we punish whore-committing nonbelievers in a manner that will reduce God’s otherwise unrelenting wrath? (Kill them, and hang their heads against the sun for God to view.) “And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. . . . and the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel. And the Lord said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel” (Numbers 25:1-4) QuoteNew International Version (NIV) While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate and bowed down before these gods. So Israel joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor. And the Lord’s anger burned against them. The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel. Numbers 15:1-4 QuoteExplanation: After Balaam had failed in his attempt to separate the Israelites from the Lord, he counseled the Moabites to try turning the Israelites away from God ay enticing them into immorality and the sensual worship of false gods. As punishment, Balaam was killed. These verses reveal the intensity of God’s displeasure with the leaders of his covenant people. They were executed for their outrageous behavior and their failure to be examples of separation from sexual immorality and idolatry. In New Testament times, the punishment for sexual immorality (i.e. adultery) was just as severe (i.e. death by stoning). An example, as in John 8, would be with the woman caught in adultery who was brought before Jesus. Jesus told them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Then, when no one stepped forward and it was apparent that no one could condemn her, Jesus said, “Then neither do I condemn you,” “Go now and leave your life of sin.” While he was alive, he forgave her sin which only God can do. Through his death, resurrection, and promise of forgiveness, your sins are also already forgiven in principle. You just have to appropriate that gift of forgiveness. We’ve got it a lot easier than the people’s of the Old Testament times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #78 September 16, 2004 QuoteWell, it would be fine if "to each his own," but instead of that kind of peaceful live-and-let-live existence, believers insist on forcing it on THE ENTIRE WORLD. Their bible tells them they're supposed to. This is what bugs the living freaking crap out of me. What I believe is no one's business but my own, however a lot of patients have started beating me over the head with their Bibles, given me tons of prayers and brochures and lectures, without ever bothering to ask me what I feel about it to begin with. Before they even open their mouths, they decide that their view of the world and God is right, everyone else is misguided, and they have to be the one and only voice of reason. Hell, I had one guy try to convince me that after death, God put our spirits into robots. Go figure. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #79 September 16, 2004 QuoteNice supposition, coming from a guy who admits he doesn't have the ability to finish two pages of the bible in a single sitting. Care to digress? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What the hell does my unwillingness to wade through the crap that fills the pages of that book have to do with my question to him: to wit, "Are you prepared for your opinion of your friend to change, once you become more aware of what it is he believes?" Your post is what is a digression, not mine. This is like arguing that evolution is right and not creation without knowing crap about evolution (for the record, I do believe in evolution). Although I certainly agree with your stance, I also think that it is unfair to judge without at least trying to understand the other person's perspective. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #80 September 16, 2004 QuoteWell then, I'd rather come from an informed position than an ignorant one. Additionally, I believe religion is personal - I'm guessing the most (negative?) reaction I could have would be to still just not understand. Whatever he's got going on with god - I have respect for. He's an awesome person - one of the best skydivers in the world - funny and devilish and a tremendously kind and good friend. I'm not asking him to open up his faith to me so I can judge him - only understand him. If I still feel it's confusing to me or just don't get it, I'll just be grateful he has it and still love him. I think he trusts me with that. Well said. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #81 September 16, 2004 QuoteGod put our spirits into robots That would explain the problems we're having with our food processor....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #82 September 16, 2004 Quote"Are you prepared for your opinion of your friend to change, once you become more aware of what it is he believes?" QuoteWhat good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? Mark 8:36 What good is it to gain lots of friends, money, and power at the expense of your own soul? How important are material things and shallow acquaintances in the long term? If he/she is going to be a true friend, he/she will accept you for who you are and will be tolerant of what you believe. My Dad told me when I was young that, when I grew up, I should be able to count the number of "true friends" that I had on one hand. Of course, I didn't believe him at the time but he was right! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #83 September 16, 2004 Quote7. What is God’s punishment for adultery? “If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel” (Deuteronomy 22:22). QuoteNew International Version (NIV) If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. Deuteronomy 22:22 Again, this is yet another example of a law within “The Book of the Covenant” or the laws that governed the nation of Israel. They are specifically applicable only to Israel and the conditions and environment existing in that period. Your quoted verse above is not a commandment from God. That’s why you need to know a little bit about what you’re going to post before you post it and to read stuff in context. If you pick and chose, you could make just about anything say anything. If you just copy and paste something off the internet without first verifying it for accuracy, you’re typically treading on dangerous ground. CBS doesn’t seem to mind, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yourmomma 0 #84 September 16, 2004 Pajarito- Reasons do not equal justification. Explain why disbelief should lead to death. After all isn't damnation of non-belivers the altimate justification for belivers and god. Hardly seems fair, just or loving to hasten the damnation of non-belivers or those who have a moment of weakness simply to stroke the ego of the master of the universe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #85 September 16, 2004 It's about time for you all to try this: http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/god.htm It's been posted before but if you haven't tried it yet, you might learn something about your own belief system.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #86 September 16, 2004 Quote8. How did God punish a man who kept the Ark of the Covenant from falling off its cart and being damaged? (God smote him dead.) “And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor [sic], Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God” (2 Samuel 6:6-7; see also 1 Chronicles 13:9-10). QuoteNew International Version (NIV) When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The Lord’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the ark of God. 2 Samuel 6-7 When they came to the threshing floor of Kidon, Uzzah reached out his hand to steady the ark, because the oxen stumbled. The Lord’s anger burned against Uzzah, and he struck him down because he had put his hand on the ark. So he died there before God. 1 Chronicles 13:9-10 QuoteExplanation: God struck down Uzzah because David and the high priest had not assigned the Levites to handle the ark in accordance with God’s command (Numbers1:47-52). (1) God had ordered that no one was to touch the ark, the symbol of his presence and majesty. Uzzah’s action grew out of his ignorance of God’s word or his lack of the fear of the Lord. (2) Uzzah is an example of the inherent dangers in having a zeal for God without knowledge of God’s word and ways. David’s plan to bring back the ark to Jerusalem, and Uzzah’s desire to steady it when it teetered on the cart, demonstrated a zeal for God’s kingdom, yet at the same time led to a careless attitude toward the standards of God’s sacred word. Ignorance is no excuse. God’s inspired revelation expresses his will regarding all of life and must be followed by those who claim him as their Lord. It’s just a lot more complicated a situation than what the title to the question above presents. You get that when you read the entire passage. Again, it’s really good that we’ve got it a WHOLE lot easier than those prior to Jesus. The same discipline is required, however. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crozby 0 #87 September 16, 2004 QuoteIf you want laws handed down by God specifically, you should look to the 10 Commandments. I have a question about this: God says not to kill other people. He stated "Thou shalt not kill" which is about as unambiguous as He could be on the issue. Yet Christians consider it OK to kill people under certain circumstances. How is that so? Also, why does He make that rule for us, when it seems He did a pretty substantial bit of smiting, some of it right before handing down that rule during the (un)parting of the Red Sea? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #88 September 16, 2004 I took zero direct hits and bit 2 bullets. Apparently my beliefs about God are well thought out and internally consistent. Who knows if that is true or not. Sounds like happy horse pucky to me. Like astrology. Just about any interpretation can be read as true. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #89 September 16, 2004 depends on which translation you're reading. the oldest texts use a word closest to murder rather than kill, which is different. If you kill someone in self defense, it probably isn't murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #90 September 16, 2004 QuoteI have a question about this: God says not to kill other people. He stated "Thou shalt not kill" which is about as unambiguous as He could be on the issue. Yet Christians consider it OK to kill people under certain circumstances. How is that so? Also, why does He make that rule for us, when it seems He did a pretty substantial bit of smiting, some of it right before handing down that rule during the (un)parting of the Red Sea? In what circumstance, specifically are you referring in reference to justified killing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kaerock 1 #91 September 16, 2004 That's because there was a paradigm shift that happened with Jesus. The god of the old testament was a smiting, unfriendly, and cranky character. The god of the new testament was all about tolerance, forgiveness and touchy-feely-lovey stuff. How these are reconciled is beyond me, how christians justify killing even though the 10 commandments explicitly state to NOT do it, is also beyond me. -R QuoteQuoteIf you want laws handed down by God specifically, you should look to the 10 Commandments. I have a question about this: God says not to kill other people. He stated "Thou shalt not kill" which is about as unambiguous as He could be on the issue. Yet Christians consider it OK to kill people under certain circumstances. How is that so? Also, why does He make that rule for us, when it seems He did a pretty substantial bit of smiting, some of it right before handing down that rule during the (un)parting of the Red Sea? You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kaerock 1 #92 September 16, 2004 The crusades? The inquisition? The conquistadors? -R QuoteQuoteI have a question about this: God says not to kill other people. He stated "Thou shalt not kill" which is about as unambiguous as He could be on the issue. Yet Christians consider it OK to kill people under certain circumstances. How is that so? Also, why does He make that rule for us, when it seems He did a pretty substantial bit of smiting, some of it right before handing down that rule during the (un)parting of the Red Sea? In what circumstance, specifically are you referring in reference to justified killing? You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crozby 0 #93 September 16, 2004 Quotedepends on which translation you're reading. the oldest texts use a word closest to murder rather than kill, which is different. If that was the intended meaning I'd have thought that the current set of Bible translations would state that wouldn't they? Its pretty fundamental afterall and if a short bit of text like that has been mis-translated then how on earth can the translations of all the other thousands of sentences be relied on? Also, Christians regularly kill people in war situations when it cannot be put down to self defence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #94 September 16, 2004 Quotedepends on which translation you're reading. the oldest texts use a word closest to murder rather than kill, which is different. If you kill someone in self defense, it probably isn't murder. QuoteWhat is the Bible Definition of Murder? God knew when He created men with free wills that not all would follow and obey Him. However, He also knew that many would want to love and serve Him. In giving men free will, He also had to establish laws for men to live by. When we look at the Ten Commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, we can see that these laws were given for the good of mankind. One of these laws is in verse 13: "Thou shalt not kill." You may wonder if God said "do not kill," why He would then decree that governments could send men to war to kill other men. The reason is that the Hebrew meaning of the word translated as "kill" actually means "murder" or "to slay someone in a violent manner unjustly." So, in the Ten Commandments God is saying, "Thou shalt not murder." Unjust premeditated killing with the wrong motives of hatred, vengeance, greed, jealousy, etc. is murder. Killing in self defense to protect oneself is not murder nor is executing condemned killers. The very founders of this nation were known to carry a Bible in one hand and a musket in the other in order to defend the freedom they sought here. The freedom to worship God was one of those freedoms they fought for and died for. What does the Bible say about War Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crozby 0 #95 September 16, 2004 QuoteIn what circumstance, specifically are you referring in reference to justified killing? Wars basically, where civilians end up dying due to the carelessness of military forces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kaerock 1 #96 September 16, 2004 Now, remember, it's not just the Christians, let's be fair. -R QuoteQuotedepends on which translation you're reading. the oldest texts use a word closest to murder rather than kill, which is different. If that was the intended meaning I'd have thought that the current set of Bible translations would state that wouldn't they? Its pretty fundamental afterall and if a short bit of text like that has been mis-translated then how on earth can the translations of all the other thousands of sentences be relied on? Also, Christians regularly kill people in war situations when it cannot be put down to self defence. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #97 September 16, 2004 Please refer to my response to Nightingale. Of course, we don't always get it right and may think we're justified when we really aren't. That goes along with being human and imperfect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #98 September 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn what circumstance, specifically are you referring in reference to justified killing? Wars basically, where civilians end up dying due to the carelessness of military forces. There's Christian ROE (Rules of Engagement) which are outlined in the article that I posted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #99 September 16, 2004 Quote9. What is the punishment for having sex with an animal? (Death of both the man and the animal.) “Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death” (Exodus 22:19). “And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast” (Leviticus 20:15). QuoteNew International Version (NIV) If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal Leviticus 20:15 Again, this is yet another law from “The Book of the Covenant.” Your quoted law is applicable only to the nation of Israel. Of course, God does consider this an abomination just like other acts of sexual impurity. However, your (or the person who actually wrote the top 10 list) example is a bad one in reference to God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crozby 0 #100 September 16, 2004 QuoteThere's Christian ROE (Rules of Engagement) which are outlined in the article that I posted. I scanned it, and it doesn't condone carpet bombing, cluster bombing, or any other kind of civilian casualty inducing behaviour that Christian nations regularly participate in. Also, its quoting people, not God. God just said "Thou shalt not kill/murder" which is free from all the if's and but's which men seem to have subsequently appened which make the rule so much more flexible as to be nothing like the original statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 4 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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pajarito 0 #83 September 16, 2004 Quote7. What is God’s punishment for adultery? “If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel” (Deuteronomy 22:22). QuoteNew International Version (NIV) If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. Deuteronomy 22:22 Again, this is yet another example of a law within “The Book of the Covenant” or the laws that governed the nation of Israel. They are specifically applicable only to Israel and the conditions and environment existing in that period. Your quoted verse above is not a commandment from God. That’s why you need to know a little bit about what you’re going to post before you post it and to read stuff in context. If you pick and chose, you could make just about anything say anything. If you just copy and paste something off the internet without first verifying it for accuracy, you’re typically treading on dangerous ground. CBS doesn’t seem to mind, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yourmomma 0 #84 September 16, 2004 Pajarito- Reasons do not equal justification. Explain why disbelief should lead to death. After all isn't damnation of non-belivers the altimate justification for belivers and god. Hardly seems fair, just or loving to hasten the damnation of non-belivers or those who have a moment of weakness simply to stroke the ego of the master of the universe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #85 September 16, 2004 It's about time for you all to try this: http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/god.htm It's been posted before but if you haven't tried it yet, you might learn something about your own belief system.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #86 September 16, 2004 Quote8. How did God punish a man who kept the Ark of the Covenant from falling off its cart and being damaged? (God smote him dead.) “And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor [sic], Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God” (2 Samuel 6:6-7; see also 1 Chronicles 13:9-10). QuoteNew International Version (NIV) When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The Lord’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the ark of God. 2 Samuel 6-7 When they came to the threshing floor of Kidon, Uzzah reached out his hand to steady the ark, because the oxen stumbled. The Lord’s anger burned against Uzzah, and he struck him down because he had put his hand on the ark. So he died there before God. 1 Chronicles 13:9-10 QuoteExplanation: God struck down Uzzah because David and the high priest had not assigned the Levites to handle the ark in accordance with God’s command (Numbers1:47-52). (1) God had ordered that no one was to touch the ark, the symbol of his presence and majesty. Uzzah’s action grew out of his ignorance of God’s word or his lack of the fear of the Lord. (2) Uzzah is an example of the inherent dangers in having a zeal for God without knowledge of God’s word and ways. David’s plan to bring back the ark to Jerusalem, and Uzzah’s desire to steady it when it teetered on the cart, demonstrated a zeal for God’s kingdom, yet at the same time led to a careless attitude toward the standards of God’s sacred word. Ignorance is no excuse. God’s inspired revelation expresses his will regarding all of life and must be followed by those who claim him as their Lord. It’s just a lot more complicated a situation than what the title to the question above presents. You get that when you read the entire passage. Again, it’s really good that we’ve got it a WHOLE lot easier than those prior to Jesus. The same discipline is required, however. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #87 September 16, 2004 QuoteIf you want laws handed down by God specifically, you should look to the 10 Commandments. I have a question about this: God says not to kill other people. He stated "Thou shalt not kill" which is about as unambiguous as He could be on the issue. Yet Christians consider it OK to kill people under certain circumstances. How is that so? Also, why does He make that rule for us, when it seems He did a pretty substantial bit of smiting, some of it right before handing down that rule during the (un)parting of the Red Sea? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #88 September 16, 2004 I took zero direct hits and bit 2 bullets. Apparently my beliefs about God are well thought out and internally consistent. Who knows if that is true or not. Sounds like happy horse pucky to me. Like astrology. Just about any interpretation can be read as true. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #89 September 16, 2004 depends on which translation you're reading. the oldest texts use a word closest to murder rather than kill, which is different. If you kill someone in self defense, it probably isn't murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #90 September 16, 2004 QuoteI have a question about this: God says not to kill other people. He stated "Thou shalt not kill" which is about as unambiguous as He could be on the issue. Yet Christians consider it OK to kill people under certain circumstances. How is that so? Also, why does He make that rule for us, when it seems He did a pretty substantial bit of smiting, some of it right before handing down that rule during the (un)parting of the Red Sea? In what circumstance, specifically are you referring in reference to justified killing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #91 September 16, 2004 That's because there was a paradigm shift that happened with Jesus. The god of the old testament was a smiting, unfriendly, and cranky character. The god of the new testament was all about tolerance, forgiveness and touchy-feely-lovey stuff. How these are reconciled is beyond me, how christians justify killing even though the 10 commandments explicitly state to NOT do it, is also beyond me. -R QuoteQuoteIf you want laws handed down by God specifically, you should look to the 10 Commandments. I have a question about this: God says not to kill other people. He stated "Thou shalt not kill" which is about as unambiguous as He could be on the issue. Yet Christians consider it OK to kill people under certain circumstances. How is that so? Also, why does He make that rule for us, when it seems He did a pretty substantial bit of smiting, some of it right before handing down that rule during the (un)parting of the Red Sea? You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #92 September 16, 2004 The crusades? The inquisition? The conquistadors? -R QuoteQuoteI have a question about this: God says not to kill other people. He stated "Thou shalt not kill" which is about as unambiguous as He could be on the issue. Yet Christians consider it OK to kill people under certain circumstances. How is that so? Also, why does He make that rule for us, when it seems He did a pretty substantial bit of smiting, some of it right before handing down that rule during the (un)parting of the Red Sea? In what circumstance, specifically are you referring in reference to justified killing? You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #93 September 16, 2004 Quotedepends on which translation you're reading. the oldest texts use a word closest to murder rather than kill, which is different. If that was the intended meaning I'd have thought that the current set of Bible translations would state that wouldn't they? Its pretty fundamental afterall and if a short bit of text like that has been mis-translated then how on earth can the translations of all the other thousands of sentences be relied on? Also, Christians regularly kill people in war situations when it cannot be put down to self defence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #94 September 16, 2004 Quotedepends on which translation you're reading. the oldest texts use a word closest to murder rather than kill, which is different. If you kill someone in self defense, it probably isn't murder. QuoteWhat is the Bible Definition of Murder? God knew when He created men with free wills that not all would follow and obey Him. However, He also knew that many would want to love and serve Him. In giving men free will, He also had to establish laws for men to live by. When we look at the Ten Commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, we can see that these laws were given for the good of mankind. One of these laws is in verse 13: "Thou shalt not kill." You may wonder if God said "do not kill," why He would then decree that governments could send men to war to kill other men. The reason is that the Hebrew meaning of the word translated as "kill" actually means "murder" or "to slay someone in a violent manner unjustly." So, in the Ten Commandments God is saying, "Thou shalt not murder." Unjust premeditated killing with the wrong motives of hatred, vengeance, greed, jealousy, etc. is murder. Killing in self defense to protect oneself is not murder nor is executing condemned killers. The very founders of this nation were known to carry a Bible in one hand and a musket in the other in order to defend the freedom they sought here. The freedom to worship God was one of those freedoms they fought for and died for. What does the Bible say about War Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #95 September 16, 2004 QuoteIn what circumstance, specifically are you referring in reference to justified killing? Wars basically, where civilians end up dying due to the carelessness of military forces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #96 September 16, 2004 Now, remember, it's not just the Christians, let's be fair. -R QuoteQuotedepends on which translation you're reading. the oldest texts use a word closest to murder rather than kill, which is different. If that was the intended meaning I'd have thought that the current set of Bible translations would state that wouldn't they? Its pretty fundamental afterall and if a short bit of text like that has been mis-translated then how on earth can the translations of all the other thousands of sentences be relied on? Also, Christians regularly kill people in war situations when it cannot be put down to self defence. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #97 September 16, 2004 Please refer to my response to Nightingale. Of course, we don't always get it right and may think we're justified when we really aren't. That goes along with being human and imperfect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #98 September 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn what circumstance, specifically are you referring in reference to justified killing? Wars basically, where civilians end up dying due to the carelessness of military forces. There's Christian ROE (Rules of Engagement) which are outlined in the article that I posted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #99 September 16, 2004 Quote9. What is the punishment for having sex with an animal? (Death of both the man and the animal.) “Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death” (Exodus 22:19). “And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast” (Leviticus 20:15). QuoteNew International Version (NIV) If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal Leviticus 20:15 Again, this is yet another law from “The Book of the Covenant.” Your quoted law is applicable only to the nation of Israel. Of course, God does consider this an abomination just like other acts of sexual impurity. However, your (or the person who actually wrote the top 10 list) example is a bad one in reference to God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #100 September 16, 2004 QuoteThere's Christian ROE (Rules of Engagement) which are outlined in the article that I posted. I scanned it, and it doesn't condone carpet bombing, cluster bombing, or any other kind of civilian casualty inducing behaviour that Christian nations regularly participate in. Also, its quoting people, not God. God just said "Thou shalt not kill/murder" which is free from all the if's and but's which men seem to have subsequently appened which make the rule so much more flexible as to be nothing like the original statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
