The Bible

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

No, naturally, someone who claims to know EXACTLY the truth about God and the Bible will not entertain discussion or debate about the subject. That would threaten one's dominion over the absolute Truth.

"All other versions are perversions."
"Most of what is written (other people's views and opinions, I guess) is nothing but blasphemy."
"I will delete any emails that are considered blasphemous toward God or Jesus Christ."

These are the closed-minded, fundamentalist attitudes that have brought about burnings at the stake, wars, hatred, murder... and the irony is that it's all supposed to be about peace. To me, truly sickening. "I know all and won't entertain discussion with anything that might challenge my supreme knowledge." Sickening.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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This is a tough one that I've thought about a lot before. The answers aren't as clear cut as I'd like. Here is some info on it:

What about those who have never heard the Gospel?

A. That is a good question. The Bible says that God is a just God. We know that whatever He does is right.

Whatever ANY total dictator does is "right" -- because a dictator defines what is "right."

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When it comes to those who have never heard the Gospel, He will do what is right, whatever that is.

What a beautiful, non-disprovable catch-all.
In other words, if sending you to hell because you were unlucky enough to have never been exposed to the gospel is "right," see ya, have fun in hell!

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Romans speaks about those who have never heard the Law of God and how they will be judged according to the law that is written in their hearts. The Law written in their hearts is the knowledge of right and wrong.

Which would be a very fine substitute for whatever god uses to judge people who have heard the gospel. What the hell would be wrong with making things simple: you are judged by whether you did right or wrong? Whether you were a good person or an evil person?

All of this religious CRAP that cites books and chapters and so and so saying blah blah blah is useless and stupid, and all used simply to justify the dominion that certain people claim over how the rest of the people should live. It is utterly unnecessary, and the world could live in peace and prosperity and goodness without all this clutter, confusion, contradiction, and complication.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Frenchy68 0]

Come on, Bill. Next, you'll try to have us believe someone has jumped off a plane without a rig on...???

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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To put this kind of post without supporting data and then refusing to read the thread is not exactly a valid way to address a debate. If the intent of this thread is to educate, please do so, give us the quotes so we can evaluate for ourselves.

You were expecting intellectual honesty, openness, frank dialogue and validation of other views and opinions from a religious fundamentalist?!

The whole thread was just a hit-and-run, "I'll tell you how it is and then close the discussion so you can't disprove me, or if you do, I won't even be aware of it" farce.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I’m not saying that all other religions have it wrong completely. Most teach many “good” things and are very beneficial. However, I think that most people, deep down in their heart of hearts, know what’s right. I believe that it’s written in their hearts.

And what's right, what's written in their hearts, is that the Christian theology is the final Truth.

So you're asserting that anyone who believes fundamentally in Islam or Judaism is really, in their heart, lying to themselves and actually believes the Christian message. Nice.

You don't manage to recognize this as religious fundamentalism, bigotry, and hypocrisy?? Interesting.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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There is one book that has convinced most of all who read it to believe in the Bible and God's unchanged message and mission.

Now HOW can this statement POSSIBLY be made in earnest?!
You (or anyone else) profess to know what has gone on in the minds of untrackable numbers of people who have read this book, enough to claim that most who read it end up believing in "god's unchanged message"? Is this done through some magical polling method that does not require people to actually inform you of their thinking? How do you know that there are not half a million people who have read the book and DIDN'T get convinced? On what basis is this claim made in the first place? What method of accounting for who was convinced and who was not was employed here?

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This book is called "Hostage to the Devil" authored by Malachi Martin - a eminent theologian, premier authority on the Roman Catholic Church and former professor at the Vatican's Pontifical Biblical Institute. He has also authored several other national bestsellers to include "The Jesuits".

I read in a style guide that "authored" is just a fancy, useless substitute for "WROTE" and is used when people want to give extra needless flourish to their writing. To me, it comes across as really silly. A fancy dress on a pig.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Luv2Fall 0]

.......and you're entitled to your opinion as well.....ain't it great?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Are the references you're listing from The Bible Code?

The Bible?? Who reads that any more? The true source of all great truths is the encoded references in [URL "http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html"]Moby Dick[/URL]

You're wrong, and you'll burn in hell for it. The TRUE TRUTH is encoded in Judy Blume's Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing.


Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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.......and you're entitled to your opinion as well.....ain't it great?

Not according to Bill Cole's thread starter. He shut us all down by saying that dissenting views would not be paid attention to.

I certainly AM entitled to my opinion, but often it is only by virtue of the fact that I ASSERT my right to my opinion, not because others grant that I do have that right. No one can enslave you if you know you are free.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Luv2Fall 0]

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.......and you're entitled to your opinion as well.....ain't it great?

I certainly AM entitled to my opinion, but often it is only by virtue of the fact that I ASSERT my right to my opinion, not because others grant that I do have that right. No one can enslave you if you know you are free.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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No - no one can.

[juanesky 0]

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Come on, Bill. Next, you'll try to have us believe someone has jumped off a plane without a rig on...???

Ahem, he has.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Frenchy68 0]

Ahem, he has.
***
Uh...really?
He should have been banned for life (at least twice) for doing it then...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Morcyk 0]

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My point was that no matter which country you are in, you think your book is the right one. Not only that, you think that you will be "saving" the other group from eternal pain. Really sincere religious folks are really trying to help.

This is exactly why I am no longer a Methodist, but agnostic. I still believe in a God, but I refuse to act like a believe something that I don't just because a book that's been translated from language to language and interpreted a thousand different ways depending on your culture, says that it's right.

[pajarito 0]

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This is exactly why I am no longer a Methodist, but agnostic. I still believe in a God, but I refuse to act like a believe something that I don't just because a book that's been translated from language to language and interpreted a thousand different ways depending on your culture, says that it's right.

If you believe in "a god", then you'd be a Theist, not an Agnostic. An Agnostic would claim not enough information to claim knowledge. So, which god do you believe in?

[pajarito 0]

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You don't manage to recognize this as religious fundamentalism, bigotry, and hypocrisy?? Interesting.

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If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake. If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all those religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth. - - C.S. Lewis

So who’s the radical?

[yourmomma 0]

***The Bible says that God is a just God.

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1. What punishment does God mandate for anyone with a different religion?

A. None. God accepts all his children, even those who believe in dirrerent deities.
B. Death of the nonbeliever (man and woman, great and small) and everyone in the community.
C. Purgatory.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: B. (Death of the nonbeliever (man and woman, great and small) and everyone in the community.) “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed” (Exodus 22:20). “If thou shalt hear say . . . Certain men . . . saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy 13:12-15). “That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman” (2 Chronicles 15:13).

2. How did Jesus punish those with different religions?

A. He struck them dumb.
B. He smote them and had worms eat them.
C. He had the apostles kill them for Him.
D. All of the above.

Correct Answer: D. (All of the above.) “And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak . . . because thou believest not my words” (Luke 1:20). “And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost” (Acts 12:23). “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me” (Luke 19:27).

3. Pharaoh, alone, made the decision to imprison the Israelites. How did God punish this lone individual?

A. God killed every firstborn child of Egypt, including the firstborn of people imprisoned by Pharaoh as well as the firstborn of cattle.
B. God struck everyone in the fields, man and cattle, with hail.
C. God struck every single Egyptian with boils.
D. All of the above.

Correct Answer: D. (All of the above.) "And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle” (Exodus 12:29). And the Lord said unto Moses, Stretch forth thine hand toward heaven, that there may be hail in all the land of Egypt . . . And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast” (Exodus 9:22-25). “And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils; for the boil was upon the magicians, and upon all Egyptians” (Exodus 9:11).

4. How does God punish complainers?

A. In no way. While they should not complain, since it is only by the grace of God that we are here, our just and loving God does not punish people for this act.
B. Their prayers will go unanswered for seven days and seven nights.
C. The condition of which they complain will be magnified tenfold.
D. God will burn the complainer, and everyone residing anywhere near him, with fire.

Correct Answer: D. (God will burn the complainer, and everyone residing anywhere near him, with fire.) “And when the people complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the Lord burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp” (Numbers 11:1).

5. How has God punished those who have no knowledge of him?

A. This is ridiculous. If they haven't heard of Him, God certainly wouldn’t punish them.
B. He does not punish them until they know of Him. If they continue to disbelieve after being informed, He strikes them with plagues.
C. Their crops do not produce and their animals do not reproduce.
D. He sends lions to maul the ignorant to death.

Correct Answer: D. (He has sent lions to maul the ignorant to death.) “Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land” (2 Kings 17:26).

6. How should we punish whore-committing nonbelievers in a manner that will reduce God’s otherwise unrelenting wrath?

A. Don’t judge them or toss stones. Leave the judgment to God.
B. Stone them to death and bury their bodies in a single grave.
C. Evict them from the community, and if they are family members, dissociate from them forever.
D. Kill them, and hang their heads against the sun for God to view.

Correct Answer: D. (Kill them, and hang their heads against the sun for God to view.) “And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. . . . and the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel. And the Lord said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel” (Numbers 25:1-4)

7. What is God’s punishment for adultery?

A. None. While adultery is a sin, God forgives sins rather than punishes them.
B. The adulterer is to be killed.
C. The adulterer’s partner is to be killed.
D. B and C.

Correct Answer: D. (B and C) “If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel” (Deuteronomy 22:22).

8. How did God punish a man who kept the Ark of the Covenant from falling off its cart and being damaged?

A. In no way. What that man did was a blessing in that he protected a sacred object.
B. Because the ark is holy, what the man did was wrong, but God did not punish him for it.
C. God smote him dead.
D. The ark burned his fingers, thereby signaling to all not to touch the ark, even to protect it.


Correct Answer: C.(God smote him dead.) “And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor [sic], Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God” (2 Samuel 6:6-7; see also 1 Chronicles 13:9-10).

9. What is the punishment for having sex with an animal?

A. None. God forgives all sins.
B. Death (of both the man and the animal).
C. Reasonable compensation to the beast’s owner to restore cleanliness.
D. Mandatory counseling.

Correct Answer: B. (Death of both the man and the animal.) “Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death” (Exodus 22:19). “And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast” (Leviticus 20:15).

10. What is the punishment for someone who anoints a stranger with holy oil?

A. Absolutely none. God encourages us to bring everyone into the fold and would therefore be pleased with our anointing of those we do not know.
B. They are to be denied access to holy oil and may not participate in any future anointings.
C. They must admit their sin to the entire congregation.
D. They are to be banished from the community.

Correct Answer: D. (They are to be banished from the community.) “This shall be an [sic] holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations. . . . Whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger, shall even be cut off from his people” (Exodus 30:31-33).

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[Morcyk 0]

Ahh my bad, never claimed to be articulate, hehe. I was led to believe agnostic was that you didn't necessarily follow any one religion.

I don't recognize a name for god. I just believe that there is a god out there in some form. I don't believe all this could be here by chance.

I've studied several religions, Hindu, Christianity, Islam, Sumerian (no idea what it was called), Witchcraft & Wicca (yes they're different), and Druidism. I believe bits and pieces of each, but not the whole bit. The funny part is, Many of them (Paganism excluded) have the practically the same creation story, flood story, etc. and there are a lot of rituals that span across all the above mentioned religions (including Paganism). Coincidence?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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My point was that no matter which country you are in, you think your book is the right one. Not only that, you think that you will be "saving" the other group from eternal pain. Really sincere religious folks are really trying to help.

This is exactly why I am no longer a Methodist, but agnostic. I still believe in a God, but I refuse to act like a believe something that I don't just because a book that's been translated from language to language and interpreted a thousand different ways depending on your culture, says that it's right.

Isn't it AMAZING that despite how OBVIOUSLY IMPOSSIBLE it is to be sure "your bible" is right after all that screwing around with it that has occurred historically, there are people who maintain that every word of it is true, and the original intent of GOD?!

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Look, I can't say that I can corroborate that this stuff is actually what is found in the bible -- but I have no trouble believing it.

I guess you could call it "faith."

Why should I demand proof that it's true, anyway? Someone came and told me this is what was said by God! Once that claim is made, I'd be a sinner to disbelieve, right?!

Thanks for posting that. It was eye-opening. All the crap that people say about a merciful and just and kind and loving God... I guess it's all a load of shit when held up against what the bible actually SAYS.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[tunaplanet 0]

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Isn't it AMAZING that despite how OBVIOUSLY IMPOSSIBLE it is to be sure "your bible" is right after all that screwing around with it that has occurred historically, there are people who maintain that every word of it is true, and the original intent of GOD?!

Quite. Hey, to each is his own. Might as well believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny.

Forty-two

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Isn't it AMAZING that despite how OBVIOUSLY IMPOSSIBLE it is to be sure "your bible" is right after all that screwing around with it that has occurred historically, there are people who maintain that every word of it is true, and the original intent of GOD?!

Quite. Hey, to each is his own. Might as well believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny.

Well, it would be fine if "to each his own," but instead of that kind of peaceful live-and-let-live existence, believers insist on forcing it on THE ENTIRE WORLD. Their bible tells them they're supposed to.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[tunaplanet 0]

It amazes me that people can believe and devote their entire lives to something that has yet to prove it's own existence and whose "book" is chalked full of contradictions.

Maybe it's just me but I am a little more choosy in what I follow blindly. At the very least I would want proof. Either that or a book that doesn't lie chapter after chapter.

Forty-two

[pajarito 0]

I doubt that you did your own research with this post and probably just pulled the “Top 10” list off some internet site. However, I’ll try and go through them since you didn’t bother to mention anything specific and simply opted for the “barrage” technique with no attempt at preserving context. It may take some time so please bear with me.

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1. What punishment does God mandate for anyone with a different religion?

(Death of the nonbeliever (man and woman, great and small) and everyone in the community.) “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed” (Exodus 22:20). “If thou shalt hear say . . . Certain men . . . saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy 13:12-15). “That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman” (2 Chronicles 15:13).

These verses are included in what is called “The Book of the Covenant (i.e. the laws for the nation of Israel that governed its society and worship.) These laws, mostly civil in nature, were applicable only to Israel and the conditions and environment existing in that period. However, the principles embodied in these laws – values like reverence for life and commitment to justice and fairness – are eternally valid.

The verses that you (or probably someone else) quoted above are not punishments “mandated” by God. They are punishments “mandated” by the nation of Israel. If you want laws handed down by God specifically, you should look to the 10 Commandments. The 10 Commandments

Below is a brief description that I’ve posted before concerning the laws contained in the Bible:

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The commands of the Old Testament are divided generally into moral law, ceremonial law and civil law. The moral law (i.e. the 10 commandments) remain in effect and few people would question that. The ceremonial law (sacrificing 2 oxen, etc.) was fulfilled in Jesus' sacrificial death and the New Testament teaches that it is not binding anymore. The civil law (stoning for adultery, etc.) was the law of the nation of Israel, which operated as a Theocracy, and is not the civil law of any other nation.

[Morcyk 0]

is it me or does peaceful jeffrey seem rather bitter in this thread?

[pajarito 0]

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Ahh my bad, never claimed to be articulate, hehe. I was led to believe agnostic was that you didn't necessarily follow any one religion.

I don't recognize a name for god. I just believe that there is a god out there in some form. I don't believe all this could be here by chance.

I've studied several religions, Hindu, Christianity, Islam, Sumerian (no idea what it was called), Witchcraft & Wicca (yes they're different), and Druidism. I believe bits and pieces of each, but not the whole bit. The funny part is, Many of them (Paganism excluded) have the practically the same creation story, flood story, etc. and there are a lot of rituals that span across all the above mentioned religions (including Paganism). Coincidence?

That's cool. I can appreciate "honest" questioning. I wish you the best in your search.

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