How old is too old?

[likearock 1]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Midwest/05/08/veteran.parachuters.ap/index.html

Elderly WWII vets denied parachute into Normandy

Saturday, May 8, 2004 Posted: 6:57 PM EDT (2257 GMT)

CLEVELAND, Ohio (AP) -- A group of World War II veterans won't get to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Allied invasion of France next month the way they wanted -- the Army decided they're too old to safely parachute into Normandy.

"I am depressed. I was really looking forward to it," said Howard Greenberg, 79. "My reason for wanting to do it was to honor two Jewish friends of mine who were killed in World War II."

"I resent being told I'm not physically fit. I only weigh 11 pounds more than I did the day I was discharged," he said.

Greenberg, a retired optometrist in suburban Bay Village, served with the 11th Airborne in the Pacific during the war and jumped into Normandy in 1994 on the 50th anniversary of D-Day.

That time, President Clinton gave the ultimate approval that allowed 38 veterans to jump near Ste.-Mere-Eglise, the D-Day objective of the 82nd Airborne Division.

Some of them landed on a herd of French cows.

Bob McCaffery, co-chairman of the veteran parachutists' group, said he was notified of the Army's decision on Thursday.

"The Army realized that these guys have trained and they are the exception among average 80-year-olds," said McCaffery, of Las Vegas, Nev. "But they said the risk of an injury happening at a ceremony of this magnitude was just too great."

McCaffery had hoped President Bush would intercede this time, in part because the first President Bush parachuted when he was 75.

Greenberg said he was aware of the danger.

In 1995, he was one of six WWII paratroopers who went to Russia for an airborne tribute. His jump was canceled after the man who jumped before him was killed when his parachute failed to open.

In 2000, while performing a tribute near Fort Bragg, North Carolina, another member of Greenberg's group was killed when his parachute did not open properly.

"My wife was not crazy about me jumping again," Greenberg said.

[quade 3]

Yeah, it's kinda shitty, but I think it also depends on what kind of canopies, currency and fitness these heros possess today.


It would be one thing to let a PRO rated and very current 80-year-old using modern equipment jump a demo and quite another to allow what this could have been -- a re-enactment using gear reflective of 60 years ago.

I don't know all the details of what was planned, but my guess is that it's probably for the best.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ltdiver 3]

Better not let Jan hear you say this! She knows one of the jumpers who was denied...is a friend of his...and knows he is very current and in very good health at 78 years old.

She was HOPPING mad today at the DZ over his denial.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[beej 0]

They should let those with current sport licences and current activity jump.

----------------------------------------------------
If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)--

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

They should let those with current sport licences and current activity jump.

They -should-, but it seems that they aren't.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[billvon 2,412]

We trained a bunch of those guys 10 years ago for the 50th anniversary jump into Normandy. They were some interesting people. Of the 40 or so people we trained, all but about 5 did the classic (unstable) military exit, and a good half never flared. Thank god it had rained the night before - the mud saved a lot of them from broken legs. I think out of the 40 we only had one injury.

[likearock 1]

Quote

Better not let Jan hear you say this! She knows one of the jumpers who was denied...is a friend of his...and knows he is very current and in very good health at 78 years old.

She was HOPPING mad today at the DZ over his denial.

ltdiver

Was it a DZ who denied them or was it the Army?

Wayne

[Skyrad 0]

I reckon they should have a full medical which should include bone density testing. If they pass that and training then let them jump.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

then "let" them jump?!?!?!?!

Quote

Ya know what...!

They only group that should judge the feasibility
is an exclusive club.

The members all have a 60 year old
'Flying Ice Cream Cone" ~ with a Star on top!


Those guys changed the world,
made the planet a safer place.

A hard-core bunch of kids
that volunteered to go into the
Valley of the Shadow of Death...
the fastest way possible~ AIRBORNE!

If they want to go make a 'Memorial' jump...
I say let them do it.

They can jump out wearing pink lace panties
and umbrella for all I care!

They have EARNED the right!!
Give 'em back a taste of the freedom they fought for.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

Yeah, it's kinda shitty, but I think it also depends on what kind of canopies, currency and fitness these heros possess today.


It would be one thing to let a PRO rated and very current 80-year-old using modern equipment jump a demo and quite another to allow what this could have been -- a re-enactment using gear reflective of 60 years ago.

I don't know all the details of what was planned, but my guess is that it's probably for the best.

Quade - It is so obvious that you have never been discriminated against.

These Veterans were denied solely because of their calendar age. It had nothing to do with their physical fitness or mental ability to handle a jump today.

One of the insidious aspects of discrimination, whether it's racism, ageism, physically-challenged-ism or sexism, is that the group that denies access is the group that you want to get to accept you. Even though you may have righteous indignation towards the power group, you want to get them to accept you and recognize you for your merits and abilities. So the very last thing you want to do is 'get mad' at them. At the same time, you know that the power group perceives the discriminated group as 'less than' for reasons that make no sense and have no validity.

There were supposed to be 8 jumpers practicing at Elsinore in the next week for this re-jump into Normandy. One of those jumpers was Tom Morrison. He jumped into Normandy when he was 18 years old. He survived the battles of WWII. He lived 60 more years. He is physically fit to do these jumps - even on T-10s. He is mentally aware of the risks involved. He is also an active skydiver. Yet he was denied based solely and only on his calendar age. That is WRONG.

If some of the Veterans could not pass try-outs of physical ability and mental reaction, I can see denying participation. But this is not what happened. They were denied based solely on calendar age, not jump experience, not physical abilities and not mental where-with-all.

The bottom line is that these Veterans jumped on D-Day some 60 years ago, fought battles to preserve democracy in Europe, lived another 60 years and have the right to do what they want to do with their life today. If they want to do another paratrooper jump and are physically and mentally qualified to do this, then they have a right to do it. They earned it.

It is extremely ironic that a former Commander-in-Chief will be doing his next jump on his 80th birthday and the world is celebrating this event.

There is one thing that the current Command-in-Chief can do right in his last term as President. That would be to allow WWII Veterans to participate in the re-jump.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[livendive 8]

Who gives a fuck what the Army says? It's foreign soil. They can just go through whatever the French demo process is.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[kiltboy 0]

There's an organisation called pathfinder that may be able to help.

David


http://webhome.idirect.com/~sewelld/about.htm