BlueEyedMonster 0 #51 April 13, 2004 QuoteStill i don't believe that kids fight for privileges granted by a gone ruler... sorry... May I suggest you read up on the Hitler Youth. They are direct evidence of the incorrectness of your statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #52 April 13, 2004 Well, in combat (which is relevant here) they do have a weapon or not. Assault rifles are usually pretty good visible, especially the AK with its high profile. Obviously both sides play the propaganda game, but aljazeera has a pretty good record of reporting. And they are not iraqis either... Simplified they are all arabs, i know...) Have there been any military/official reports of fighting kids from iraq yet to back your claims, btw. Just because they usually do in africa and sometimes in palestine, doesn't mean that the iraqis do it too.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #53 April 13, 2004 If they get to choose the battlefield, you don't have the initiativr and are running into a trap, dude... How far can they shoot from that mosque? Anything vital in range? No? Let them sit and wait, that will destroy their will to fight faster than a chopper assault. Seal off the whole damn town and wait. Or do you have less supplies than they do?? Civilians are everyones responsibility.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #54 April 13, 2004 QuoteStill i don't believe that kids fight for privileges granted by a gone ruler... sorry... They aren't. They're fighting because their older brother or uncle or father or guardian has said "fight". All of those pics, the young men brandishing those weapons are in full control. Unless I missed one, post it.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #55 April 13, 2004 Thanks for the links to the pics. I'll print out the pic of that little shithead next to the body hung from the bridge. Maybe I'll run into him soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #56 April 13, 2004 Well, then compare american tactics against the insurgents to Wehrmacht repressions against resistance fighters as well... Why didn't they fight in military units as combatants as the hitler youth did? And the Hitler youth did not keep fighting after Hitler was dead, althouh he had planned it in the Werwolf strategy.. Doesn't negate my statement. You compare Apples and Dates.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #57 April 13, 2004 Your getting funny. and forgetting logic in your argument. QuoteWell, in combat (which is relevant here) they do have a weapon or not. Assault rifles are usually pretty good visible, especially the AK with its high profile. I don't know that you can see the profile of a weapon if: A. you happen to be looking down the barrel of it. B. its being fired by a masked person behind cover. At this points it a "PERSON" age/sex undeterminable. You are trying to apply "in a perfect world" reasoning to a "real world" situation. They are two completely different things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #58 April 13, 2004 Quotealjazeera has a pretty good record of reporting. Bwahhaahaahaahaa!So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #59 April 13, 2004 Unless you show dead kids with AKs i don't believe you, as i have the same reason to believe both sides... Shouldn't be hard after winning a fight...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #60 April 13, 2004 QuoteUnless you show dead kids with AKs i don't believe you, as i have the same reason to believe both sides... Do you see how you contradicted yourself here? You don't believe me. You believe both sides. You're hardly being objective in the discussion. I have looked through all four links provided. I don't see anyone in those pics where the gun they are holding is bigger than the person holding it.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #61 April 13, 2004 QuoteWhy didn't they fight in military units as combatants as the hitler youth did? And the Hitler youth did not keep fighting after Hitler was dead, althouh he had planned it in the Werwolf strategy.. Quotemost effective weapon they used was the Panzerfaust, a type of simple but effective anti-tank bazooka that even an 11 year old could fire. Their training was such that Reichsjugendf?hrer Axmann stated in a memorandum that, "from the Hitler Youth has emerged a movement of young tank busters. There is only victory or annihilation." Hitler Youth units would regularly ambush American infantry units. If they were cornered, they would fight to the last child. Their Leader is not Saddam its Moqtada al-Sadr. The Cleric that started this most recent mess. He is not dead. There is currently an Iraqi issued arrest warrent for him. But they have yet to catch him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #62 April 13, 2004 QuoteB. its being fired by a masked person behind cover. At this points it a "PERSON" age/sex undeterminable. Well, if you think you can't determine the difference between the guy shooting at you and an unarmed civilian (excluding the case they hide behind the same cover, of course), then you are pretty blind.. I'm okay with shooting at people who shoot at you, women, kids, whatever. The point is if i can help it, i dont shoot them if they're unarmed. No flaw in logic. If a soldier can't tell if a person has a assault gun or not (and in fight, you don't conceal it while using it, are you???),.. how does he know who he's fighting at all? Civilians are usually smart enough not to hide next to a fighter.. Most of the wounds shown in the oictures were not bullet wounds from assault rifles anyway.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #63 April 13, 2004 It was issued by Bremer, if i'm not all mistaken... No iraqi would call that iraqi issued... Still, i think there are better ways to get rid of someone like that without losing 40 men and blasting a town to bits... Sounds kinda off-scale. How about negotiating?The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #64 April 13, 2004 QuoteUnless you show dead kids with AKs i don't believe you, as i have the same reason to believe both sides... Shouldn't be hard after winning a fight... Sure if someone puts a rifle next to the body and snaps a picture. War pictures are real life fiction. Ya just have to use common sense to know whats going on and quit believing everything you hear and see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #65 April 13, 2004 How about negotiating? Yeah they tried that... It was called a constitutional convention.. But Moqtada al-Sadr didn't like the fact that under the new constitution the shiites didn't get all the power. So they renigged at the signing and pulled out after everything and Moqtada al-Sadr started calling for violence against the americans in his paper... we shut down his newspaper... and this started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #66 April 13, 2004 The point is, looking over the links again, in all those action pictures, i see no kids (define kids as under 10) wielding weapons. I just see dead ones in the fourth link... Usually great pride is taken in fighting kids by muslim extren´mists, if you look at how palestinians (HAMAS) are showing them off. I can't see any of this in the first three links provided. So, unless you proove there are kids fighting, i don't accept the argument "these women and children were shooting at US troops".The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #67 April 13, 2004 The fighting started when US troops tried to arrest him. The negotiation i meant was to avoid the street fighting and civilian casualties resulting from that, not the convetion to give iraq a constitution. How did you get that idea? Can't quite follow your logic here... Just wait, make sure he doesn't get away and once they get tired (maybe after a few weeks), just get him without much hassle. Charging in guns blazing makes good movies and bad news...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #68 April 13, 2004 QuoteIf a soldier can't tell if a person has a assault gun or not Yeah......just like the Somalis using women, kids, and cows to hide behind and deliver ammunition. Yeah........I can tell you have been there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #69 April 13, 2004 QuoteCivilians are usually smart enough not to hide next to a fighter.. You're assuming that they have a choice in the matter. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #70 April 13, 2004 QuoteThanks for the links to the pics. I'll print out the pic of that little shithead next to the body hung from the bridge. Maybe I'll run into him soon. Amen Brother.. Leave some for me.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #71 April 13, 2004 QuoteSo, unless you proove there are kids fighting, i don't accept the argument "these women and children were shooting at US troops". You don't have to accept it. Marine friends of mine are living through it every day!! Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #72 April 13, 2004 Don't shoot the cow!!! Shoot them if they take part in fighting. I have no problem with that at all. My point is only that i can't accept uninvolved people hiding in their homes to be killed. If you shoot someone who is forced to be a shield, hey, just shoot any damn hostage taken by a bank robber in the US! Same thing. And if the US don't want any more enemies in the region, they better apply strategies that avoid shelling of towns and mosques alltogether. Read here.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #73 April 13, 2004 QuoteIn war there is no Colateral damage I love it when people suddenly know all about 'war'. Collateral damage is just semantics. It is killing people, which is never nice, but it does happen. If you cant deal with it, then vote against the people who sent the soldiers in. Personally I am not in a position to comment on what I think about it right now.*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #74 April 13, 2004 If they don't have a choice, they are hostages of the insurgents, or they hide there, because they would be shot at by US forces anyway. Any other reasons?The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #75 April 13, 2004 Quote Don't shoot the cow!!! Shoot them if they take part in fighting. I have heard some absolutely HILARIOUS stories from friends about SMOKING cows in Mogadishu with Little Bird Miniguns. Funny stuff! I guess that was the official "Not so armored personell carrier" of the Somali militias. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
