Difference between a HOOK TURN and a SWOOP landing

[ColdDuck 0]

I have heard both terms used a lot here and to be totally honest I'm confused as too what they are exactly.
I have heard a lot of people discourage trying them (hook turns I mean). I know my DZ does not allow because from what I have heard that had a nasty accident out there a few years ago. And after hearing how that guy ended up I can say hook turns scare the shit out of me and I am not even sure what they are yet.
So if anyone could describe what a hook turn is and what a swoop landing is, oh and if they are not the same how do you make a canopy swoop. I'm just curious I am not in hurry to try one I am perfectly content with simple landings
If you look under the Dropzones link you will see a lot of DZs allow hook turns. If they are so dangerous why do some places still allow them.
Edited by ColdDuck on 3/21/01 09:47 PM.

[MarkM 0]

From my limited understanding a hook turn is the use of riser input to cause a dramatic turn of your canopy. Many skydivers use this at a very low altitude to radically change their landing direction and "swoop" into a landing. And if done right I think you can use the technique to "surf", plane out your downward movement into horizontal and skim across the ground before touching down.
It's dangerous because "swoopers" are turning a high verticle speed and making it horizontal before hitting the ground. If you screw up, you'll hit the ground at a fairly decent verticle speed, which is a killer.
Most dropzones allow hook turns because they can be a lot of fun and for many people the heart of skydiving is having fun in spite of the risks associated with the sport.

[lazerq3 0]

Mark,
not to controdict you or anything but I thought that a hook turn was a low turn with toggle input and a swoop is a low turn with front riser input. Also out of the 2 it was my understanding that a swoop is safer than a hook (in comparison to each other) because you can pull out of a front riser pull fast if your too low where as once you iniciate a hard toggle your pretty much committed and if your too low you really have no chance of coming out of it.
This is just what I'ev read in past threads. ANyone want to confirm or deny
jason

[Grogs 0]

Well, I think USPA actuall defines a hook-turn as a hard toggle turn. Personally, when I talk about someone 'hooking it in' I don't really differentiate between whether it was a toggle or a front riser turn. The riser turn is the safer move because it doesn't distort the shape of the canopy like a toggle turn does. When you come out of a hard toggle turn, the canopy has to re-inflate on the side the toggle was pulled down on, and then level out. For the canopy to recover from a front riser turn, it just has to level off since it's still fully inflated - this means you recover more quickly from the maneuver. Still, whether doing a hard toggle turn, or a hard front riser turn, if you don't come out in time you can seriously injure yourself.
As for a swoop, IMO, a swoop is just moving accross the ground at a high rate of speed just a matter of inches off the surface. Most swoopers lead in with a hard turn, normally a front riser turn, to build up speed for the canopy. Before they reach the ground, they flare about half-way, which levels the canopy off, but allows it to keep moving forward and swoop accross the ground. When they run out of forward speed, they flare the rest of the way and set the canopy down.
Just my opinions. Feel free to chime in if you disagree. I'm certainly not an expert.

[Zennie 0]

Just my $0.02. It was my understanding as well that a hook was toggle input and a swoop was riser input. But yeah, a lot of folks just use the term generically to refer to a low hard turn to build up vertical speed for a ground surf.
I've played around with toggle hooks up high and they're kind of fun. Great for bleeding off altitude while in your holding area. I just bury a toggle, swing out level with the canopy about 180, let the toggles up and then feel myself swing back down. Even up high you get a sense of the airspeed these guys are generating (and why it's such a bad idea to do hard toggle turns low).
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Blue Skies!
Zennie

[SniperCJ 0]

OK, I'll chime in just for fun. Ive heard the term "carving turn" as an alternative to a hook turn. A hook turn (whether with front riser or toggle input) is usually a quick 180 to build up speed for a ground surf (swoop).
One thing about toggle turns vs riser turns is also that toggle turns tend to pendulum the jumper out to the side whereas a front riser turn 'dives' he chute more and hence builds up more speed.
A carving turn is a slower 180, building up speed without the rapid dive of a hook. (Youre always dropping faster in a turn vs straight flight).
Just my understanding of the terms...
CJ

[ramon 0]

Some places don't allow them and yet they are done all the time.
Several people here have very good descriptions of hooking and swooping, in general though turning low is bad and most hotshots (not FX or VX pilots hooking at 500' but people on old school parachutes stilletos etc) tend to do very quick or snappy turns in order to plane out on the ground with maximum speed. When I here the term hook I think of an intentional sudden low turn to build up speed.
Some of the newer canopies can be turned higher and the pilot can control the length of the dive by grabbing both front risers, although this builds up speed, it is safer because they always have the option to hook higher than perfect and control their dive.
You can get a little swoop with a double front riser input gradually let up about 10-15' above the ground and then planeing out, that is much safer than doing a suddun turn at 100'.
Myself, I prefer a slow carving front riser turn if I have lots of space and no one in front of me, I build up a lot of speed, and I can bail out of the carve at anytime and land safely.
Ramon's .02
bloo skies

[ramon 0]

Still haven't figured out who you are at Spaceland yet. I've asked three people. Was one of them you?
ha ha ha.
ramon

[Zennie 0]

I go by Ted around there. I wear a yellow Protec and usually jump in jeans and a sweatshirt. I've been jumping rental gear while deciding on my personal rig.
Do you freefly & wear a green and purple freefly suit? If so, I've been with you on some jump runs.
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Blue Skies!
Zennie

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Mark,
not to controdict you or anything but I thought that a hook turn was a low turn with toggle input and a swoop is a low turn with front riser input.

No, that sounds right. I've seen it done, I've just never been interested enough in doing it to learn the specifics.