A question for CFIs...

[mountainman 0]

Hey all.....I am wondering something about becoming a pilot. First of all, I want to start my flight lessons next summer (I need a year of work to make some cash), and I want to do it all in like 2 months or so.
My question is this: what would you, as a CFI, recommend to someone with zero time to do to best prepare. Basically, I want to go into the ground school knowing as much as possible about everything. I believe this will make me a better pilot and will make it easier on the CFI to teach me and we could practice more stuff with the time he doesn't spend talking about stuff I would be able to pick up quicker.
So far, I just got in the mail a copy of "Rod Machado's Private Pilot Handbook". It has TONS of information in it regarding everything.
If you could recommend what you think would be the best way to ready myself, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[Aviatrr 0]

If you really want to learn this stuff before you start, you can get those "learn at home" videos.....such as from Sporty's Pilot Shop(www.sportys.com), which is just down the road from you a bit in Batavia.. They do a fair job of explaining most things, so you should be able to pick up most of the info from those......of course, there are certain things you will need a CFI to help you with.....which things you need help with, of course, will depend on the person..
Mike

[Dutchboy 0]

If you really work at it, you can do it in a couple of weeks. I think that you are good to get Rod Machado's book. I would also get a written test exam guide and study that. If you can get your written test out of the way then you can concentrate on flying and bang out your license pretty quickly.
As for the money involved, I can do the flight training in a Cessna 172 Skyhawk from about $3300. One cheap way to get a license is to get a few friends who want training and buy a plane together. Most of the cost of getting the license is in the plane rental ($2800 of the $3300 above). If you want to later sell the plane you shouldn't take a huge hit if you maintain it.
If you have any flight training questions, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected].
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[mountainman 0]

Thanks for the info guys! I will look into some more stuff as far as training literature and stuff of that sort. I like that set on www.sportys.com of the DVD interactive lessons. Do you think that would be a good buy?
A plane would be pretty awesome too. One buddy of mine wants to do training also. I may ask him if he'd be interested in going in together on a 152 or something of that sort. I seem to have found that 172s are much more expensive per hour to rent than the 152 and it only offers more power and 2 more seats. What would you need that for in training? Do you think the 152 is better?
Thanks again!!
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[flyboy62000 0]

It depends how heavy you and your instructor are. The airplane can only carry so much weight and with a heavy instructor, student, and full fuel a 152 will sometimes be over max. takeoff weight. The 152 is a great training airplane and will do the job. However with two people and full fuel you'll probably only get about 500fpm in a climb on a normal day. With the 172 you get much more cabin space (leg room), and more power. For a cross country flight the 152 will do just under 100kts the 172 will do 110-115kts and has a longer range. Have fun.
Adam

[freeflir29 0]

"heavy instructor, student, and full fuel a 152 will sometimes be over max"
A few months ago I went up with a 230 lb instructor, I weigh about 195, and had half tanks in the plane. About an hours worth of fuel and we were over gross about 20 lbs. No big deal but flying in 1 hour blocks can really get annoying. In a 172 it's no big deal to go out and fly for 2-3 hours and really get some things done.
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[mountainman 0]

Thanks Flyboy and Clay.....very good points on that. I never thought the 152 had such a low max weight limit. Jeez....I guess maybe we can start looking for something along the lines of a 152 or something of the sort.
What kind of plane would an instructor/experienced pilot recommend buying that would be very good for training, but would be useful for after the training and flying longer distances? Also, something that is cost effective. (I know, this is like talking skydiving as well, but you get my drift...I hope.)
Thank you!
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[freeflir29 0]

A Cessna 172....you can't beat it. It burns about 2 gallons an hour more than a 152 but will carry two people and ample baggage. It will get there pretty quick...100-110 knts and is very simple to fly which keeps your insurance low!!! I really wanted a Mooney but I'll have to get a lot of hours before I can get the insurance to a reasonable amount. They have retrac gear and constant speed propellar plus they are pretty damned unforgiving to fly. However, they will cruise at 150 MPH!!!!!!!!!
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[mountainman 0]

Thanks for the suggestion Clay. I guess the 172 is one of the staples of flight instruction and is a very common plane. Would you think that would mean it is cheaper for maintainance also?
I saw some 172s in the 30-40k range that looked flyable (some in the 20s that were either wrecked and/or missing wings. heh heh heh.....
Also, I wonder what kind of money it would cost to get the door converted to "vertical opening". Hmm.....take out the right seat and have two jumpers in the back being comfortable. hehe....
Anymore info is greatly appreciated.
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[freeflir29 0]

A Cessna is the cheapest aircraft out there for both operation and maintenance excluding some kit planes. Those can cost a lot of money to build though. There are plenty of 172's out there for 30K. You shouldn't pay any more than 35K. To go any higher than that would mean you were either buying something really new or with a bunch of avionics that you won't know how to use or have any need of for quite a while. I wouldn't suggest a jump door mod as it really hurts the value of the aircraft. The only reason I would do that is to lease it to a DZ so they make the payments. The drawback....in the end the plane won't be worth the money you put into it.
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[flyboy62000 0]

just take the door off when you want to fly jumpers. pull the two hinge pins and you're in business. a little chilly during the winter, but no problem during the summer.

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

What kind of plane would an instructor/experienced pilot recommend buying that would be very good for training, but would be useful for after the training and flying longer distances?

As Clay stated, a 172 is definitely a good choice.....but there are others as well that are just as suitable.. The Piper Cherokee series(PA28-140, -150, -160, -180, etc) are pretty popular trainers and also have better payload than a 152, and usually equal to or slightly less than a 172.. The number after the PA28 portion tells you how many horsepower the engine has, and I think at the -200 or -235 you get into the six seaters.. The standard 152 has, I believe, 110hp, and the 172 series has between 140(the original, old 172's) and 160.. Sometimes you can get a killer deal on a Cherokee..
Another thing that may be a consideration is a homebuilt.. If you can find a GOOD, SUITABLE homebuilt that was professionally built, you may get it for a really good price.. It is legal to learn to fly in a homebuilt, it is just not legal to rent them out.. If you are considering buying an aircraft to do your training in, and put it on lease-back with a flight school, this is not an option.. If you're at all interested in this option, you should talk to Phil since he is much more familiar with the homebuilt arena than I, and I assume Clay and Flyboy as well, are..
Mike

[Aviatrr 0]

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I will look into some more stuff as far as training literature and stuff of that sort. I like that set on www.sportys.com of the DVD interactive lessons. Do you think that would be a good buy?

I just went to the Sporty's website and looked at that course........Damn...that's a far cry from what we had when I was learning to fly.. Mike

[Aviatrr 0]

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As Phil said, you can also get a Private Pilot Written Test Prep book(primarily made by 2 companis, ASA and Gleim)..

Disregard that statement.....I looked closer at the Sporty's DVD course and it says that the Written Test Prep is included.. Also included is a copy of the Practical Test Standards....and a syllabus...and a logbook.....sounds like about all you need to get started..
Mike

[mountainman 0]

Awesome! Thanks for all your info. That looked like a pretty sweet set-up at Sportys.com. I may have to go down there to the store (you said it was close, right?). I just found a $300 headset on Ebay for $170 that is not even used. Hmm....sounds like renting a headset for training can run upto $110 bucks for 50 hrs. I can buy one for not much more than that.
Thank you all very much and I'll let you know when I start aquiring some more stuff.
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[flyboy62000 0]

sporty's is in batavia on the east side of cincinnati. I don't know where you're coming from, but take 275 to 32 east. follow signs to the airport.

[Dutchboy 0]

I will have to echo what others have said about the 172. It is the most popular and safe plane ever built. It has been in production a long time (since the 50's). You can get a decent older one for $20-30k. In fact, I know a skydiver who is selling a 1960 172A in good shape for about $25k right now. He's buying a Cessna 206, so he won't need this one anymore.
One thing to consider. The cost to purchase the 172 might be higher than a 150/152 (these sell for $10-25k), but the maint costs are comparable. As others have noted the fuel burn of the 152 is not much less. The range, speed, and maximum load are not nearly as good though.
If you do want to go with a homebuilt they can be cheaper to operate. My homebuilt will carry full fuel, 600 lbs of people and baggage (2-seater), cruise at 130 mph, and costs less than $10/hr to run. You might buy an already built plane like this for $35k, but you make up for the price in the operating costs.
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[quade 3]

I'll just have to echo what most of the CFI's here have already said about the written work, but I sort of disagree with the notion of trying to pound out the course as quickly as possible.
Lemme explain . . . (and this is under "normal" conditions, not some sort of accelerated school)
While there -may- be some advantage to a compressed and intensive course as far as the physical skills go, there is a limit on how much instruction a student can absorb in any given period of time. I -personally- think that an hour-long flight lesson every other day is just about optimum. That being the case, even under optimum weather conditions it might take a little longer than the two months you've currently allocated.
Beyond that, there -is- the issue of weather. Now, some weather you just don't want to fly in and that -can- be an instructive little lesson in flight planning all unto itself -- as long as you have somebody to guide you through it. However, I've seen students blast through courses in near perfect weather -- never exposed to anything even marginal -- and then get their PPL. So then . . . the first time they encounter something marginal, they have to do it by themselves. Sometimes they just sit it out (not a bad choice) and sometimes they press on regardless (sometimes a fatal choice), but the key issue here is that they don't have a lot to compare it to, so how do they know what's the right decision?
Lastly and I think most importantly, in my opinion, training, any training, isn't something to be rushed through just to get it over. It's something to be savored. An opportunity to build a relationship with the guy sitting in the next seat. An opportunity to learn about 10,000 things, not just the obvious.
So, anyway, think about it. Maybe rushing through this isn't the right way to go about it.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[quade 3]

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. . . Rod Machado's Private Pilot Handbook . . .

Machado's book is ok. Actually they're all ok and they all cover pretty much the exact same information because they're all based on passing that dang written.
I -used- to recommend the Jepps PPL textbook, but ever since they brought out the "new" edition five or six years ago with WAY too much crap for the students with short attention spans . . . eh, what can I say?
HOWEVER, my personal favorite of ALL of the aviation writers is Bill Kershner. ALL of his books are excellent. In addition to his PPL book, you might also wanna pick up his basic aerobatics book -- not that you'll be doing any, anytime soon, but he did some incredible work for NASA on spins and is hands down THE authority.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[Aviatrr 0]

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I may have to go down there to the store (you said it was close, right?). I just found a $300 headset on Ebay for $170 that is not even used. Hmm....sounds like renting a headset for training can run upto $110 bucks for 50 hrs. I can buy one for not much more than that.

Well, you WILL want a headset even after your training, so buying one before you start is the best choice, IMO, if you have some knowledge about what is good and bad about certain headsets, and which are better manufacturers.. What kind of headset did you find? I, personally, prefer David Clark's.. I have 2 of 'em(an H20-10 and an H10-13.4) that are 10 and 8 years old, respectively, that both still work perfectly.. Never had to replace anything but the gel ear seals.. BTW, I highly recommend the gel ear seals - do not buy one with foam ear seals......the gel is so much more comfortable..
Check out this link to find out how to get to Sporty's.....driving directions are toward the bottom..
http://www.sportys.com//shoppilot/?link2=visitsportys
Mike

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

but I sort of disagree with the notion of trying to pound out the course as quickly as possible.

I have to say that I agree with Pauls sentiments regarding how quickly the training should progress, and if I implied that doing the FLIGHT TRAINING portion in the fastest possible manner was the way to go - I certainly didn't mean to.. I definitely think it's a good idea to start studying the ground portions at least 3 months before you start flying, so you have plenty of time to absorb it all.. And, as you know, you already have several CFI's here to help explain anything you need help with..
Mike

[mountainman 0]

The headphones are the David Clark H10-13.4 like you have with the gel ear pads. Do you recommend the stereo, or is the mono OK?
Thank you ALL for your information. I love reading about this and getting very experienced opinions.
And Quade, I agree with you as well as I dont want to overload myself. I just mean that since I wont be teaching during the summer, I will have a lot of time to study and fly. So, I want to do it and not forget anything, but like you said, not rush it either.
Thank you again.
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[Aviatrr 0]

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The headphones are the David Clark H10-13.4 like you have with the gel ear pads. Do you recommend the stereo, or is the mono OK?

Don't get mono....I repeat, don't get mono!....oh, wait...nevermind, we're talking different types of mono.. disregard..
Seriously, I don't know whether my headsets are stereo or mono, and, honestly, it doesn't matter one bit to me.. The ONLY possible scenario I can think of that the stereo headsets would be of any use is if you have music playing through your intercom that you would die if you didn't hear it in stereo.....other than that, don't worry about it..
Mike

[mountainman 0]

Thanks Mike. Hopefully some of this stuff will work out. I'm excited to start flying.
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[riggerrob 561]

Forget about trying to lease a Cessna 172 to a jump club.
I did that one summer when we found ourselves without a plane. That tired old 172 was better than nothing, but a far cry from a 182.
On a hot summer day, the 172 refused to climb above 5,000'!
A jump door would only improve the climb rate a little.
The real solution is to get a Hawk XP or Rheims Rocket with the bigger engine, then you can take your friends to 7,000!
To clarify an earlier post, Cherokee 200 and 235 are still 4 seaters, albeit full 4 seaters.
To carry 6 in a Cherokee, you need a Cherokee Six or Lance or Saratoga, all of which have wider fuselages and 260 or more horsepower.