potatoman 0 #1 February 7, 2014 Radio Frequency ID tags are becoming cheaper by the day. I am pondering if it would be viable to use tags on mains and freebags. Checking the web, you require a "active rfid" or battery powered for longer range, and then a reader. Idea: Stich the rfid to your risers, or inside the hackey or so. when you chop, and loose your main, get into the car, and go find your main with the reader. Apparently some readers can read up to 450ft, see below link. Longer range would be ideal. You could possibly, sell these rfid tags to jumpers, and rent out the reader when they require. Would make sense for tandem gear as well, since they normally chop a lot higher. Your thoughts? http://www.iautomate.com/products/Wavetrend-L%252dRX201-Long-Range-RFID-Reader.htmlYou have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is. Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum" Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #2 February 7, 2014 George Galloway tried this using falcon trackers. Magnetic switch to on when cutaway. Used radio tracker. Never caught on. Now offers it on the new tandem. If cost was lower maybe. Other was a couple hundred bucks and 6 to 8 hundred for tracker. Not familiar enough with RFID. How long does battery last or how is it turned on and what is range? Frankly while losing a canopy is a bitch when it happens it happens rarely.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
potatoman 0 #3 February 7, 2014 From what I can see, the internet doesn't lie.... $60 for the rfid pack, the reader is $500. Range is about 450Ft, but can be extended with use of antenna. Sealed Li-ion battery, but cannot find lifespan. No on switch, it is sealed, and waterproof. Some DZ are in town, so when you chop, the canopy lands in someone's backyard. Very hard to find. Sugar cane valleys as well, you chop, you say goodbye.You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is. Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum" Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #4 February 7, 2014 potatoman From what I can see, the internet doesn't lie.... "I saw it on the internet, it must be true!" One to three year life time. From the internet.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lyosha 48 #5 February 7, 2014 potatomanRadio Frequency ID tags are becoming cheaper by the day. I am pondering if it would be viable to use tags on mains and freebags. Checking the web, you require a "active rfid" or battery powered for longer range, and then a reader. Idea: Stich the rfid to your risers, or inside the hackey or so. when you chop, and loose your main, get into the car, and go find your main with the reader. Apparently some readers can read up to 450ft, see below link. Longer range would be ideal. You could possibly, sell these rfid tags to jumpers, and rent out the reader when they require. Would make sense for tandem gear as well, since they normally chop a lot higher. Your thoughts? http://www.iautomate.com/products/Wavetrend-L%252dRX201-Long-Range-RFID-Reader.html Based on what I know about RFIDs, they're not the right tool for the job. Some sort of radio tracking would work better, and at least the transmitter should cost very little. The receiver... a little pricier. But maybe a DZ could own that. I don't know if this is enough of an issue for me to actively look into it though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #6 February 7, 2014 It only has to happen to you once and you start to wish there was good and affordable technology available to track your gear. I lost a main, plus freebag and pc at a well known midwest dz (surrounded by lots of woods and corn fields) last summer on a sunset load. Another jumper on the same load lost a main as well. New main, risers, bag and pc, reserve freebag and pc, plus the 182 I rented to search, added up to maybe $2700. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #7 February 7, 2014 lyosha Some sort of radio tracking would work better, and at least the transmitter should cost very little. The receiver... a little pricier. But maybe a DZ could own that. This idea has been tried before. It would require wide-spread, almost industry wide adoption. Why invest in a transmitter if the receiver isn't going to be available when you travel? IMO, something that can be tracked with a smart phone or more portable device is going to work better."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #8 February 7, 2014 Again this was tried. Many harness manufacturers signed on. A website was up. It was/is based on existing falconry bird trackers. Never caught on. Same system is called FIDO on the Plexus tandem. http://www.plexustandem.com/products/fido.htmlI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3mpire 0 #9 February 8, 2014 Keep watching bluetooth low energy as it develops. currently the range for items tagged with bluetooth low energy transmitters can be picked up at a range between 100-160 feet. that in itself isn't great but not bad. if they can in future versions extend the distance to 300+ feet you'd be in business. plenty of consumer products are being conceived that could be re-purposed for this use-case (finding a lost main). the advantage to this is the size and cost of the tags is small and all it requires for detection is a bluetooth enabled device (like a smart phone). imagine buying tags for 5 bucks a pop and you can now find your main, your free bag, your helmet, your jumpsuit, your log book, your altimeter, your car keys, and even the beer cooler. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sticknfind-bluetooth-powered-ultra-small-location-stickers http://securityadvancement.com/2012/11/bluetooth-low-energy-tracking-for-wallets/ update: http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/low-energy-tech-info.aspx according to this you can get a range of up to 100 meters (300 feet): QuoteRange – Increased modulation index provides a possible range for Bluetooth low energy technology of over 100 meters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3mpire 0 #10 February 8, 2014 Or how about this, everyone wears one of these transmitters in their helmet and you connect your smart phone to your audible altimeter and it gives you a warning if you are under canopy and another user is detected within 100 feet of you. no more blind spots. same thing could happen in free fall. if you are below a predefined breakoff and another user is within 100 feet of you you get an audible warning. would help warn you close to deployment if a possible collision is imminent given proximity to another jumper. just spit balling how you could use the technology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #11 February 8, 2014 potatomanRadio Frequency ID tags are becoming cheaper by the day. I am pondering if it would be viable to use tags on mains and freebags. Checking the web, you require a "active rfid" or battery powered for longer range, and then a reader. Idea: Stich the rfid to your risers, or inside the hackey or so. when you chop, and loose your main, get into the car, and go find your main with the reader. Apparently some readers can read up to 450ft, see below link. Longer range would be ideal. You could possibly, sell these rfid tags to jumpers, and rent out the reader when they require. Would make sense for tandem gear as well, since they normally chop a lot higher. Your thoughts? http://www.iautomate.com/products/Wavetrend-L%252dRX201-Long-Range-RFID-Reader.html There are systems available that are much cheaper and smaller than the one you linked to. They can work with a smart phone app using a google map and use a prepaid phone card to make contact. It just hasn't been adapted for skydiving.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #12 February 11, 2014 these guys (blutracker.com) have (had?) a good looking product, seems like it would be perfect for skydiving. haven't seen any updates lately though."Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #13 February 11, 2014 kingbunkythese guys (blutracker.com) have (had?) a good looking product, seems like it would be perfect for skydiving. haven't seen any updates lately though. If used at optimum conditions. If not QuoteWhat is the range of BluTracker when there are buildings or trees between the Smartphone and BluTracker? US Version is approximately 400 ft to 1000 feet. European Version is approximately 40-80 Meters. Good, but not that good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
df8m1 20 #14 February 13, 2014 As has been stated before, there are several options that are tailored for other applications that if integrated properly, could serve very well for canopy or even rig recovery. The issue is the integration into our equipment.. Addressing all the little details that make a product attractive to a user is costly. I have quite an extensive file on this type of product, but I still do not think the market would make it worth my while, and I am sure that I am not the only person/company to think that because not one has moved on this "opportunity?" lol Something could be rigged up quick and dirty by an individual for him/her self, but to refine it to a marketable level will take some investment.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #15 February 13, 2014 I think I have found a GPS/GSM tracker that is suitable for the job. I have placed a order for 10 units (minimun order) to test it and see if it works. The only problem is the company is in China. And as I have read it can be problematic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #16 February 13, 2014 A little drone with a remote camera would probably be a good way to search rather than trying to build some one-off expensive tracking system... plus you can spy on your neighbors with it and otherwise put it to good use the other 99.99999% of the time it's not needed. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
df8m1 20 #17 February 16, 2014 Hellis I think I have found a GPS/GSM tracker that is suitable for the job. I have placed a order for 10 units (minimun order) to test it and see if it works. The only problem is the company is in China. And as I have read it can be problematic Are you approaching this from a personal perspective (one for yourself), or do you have a marketable solution in your sights? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #18 February 16, 2014 df8m1 ***I think I have found a GPS/GSM tracker that is suitable for the job. I have placed a order for 10 units (minimun order) to test it and see if it works. The only problem is the company is in China. And as I have read it can be problematic Are you approaching this from a personal perspective (one for yourself), or do you have a marketable solution in your sights? Well, I'm not planning on mounting 10 GPS trackers on one rig But I don't know yet. If it does work good, meaning it has OK accuracy and works as it's supposed to then I will sell the others and atleast wait until I get some true data from it. Basicly someone had to cutaway and could easily find it with the GPS. If all that happens then maybe. The unit I found is not water resistant, so it will not work for every one. And as much as I have tried to find something water resistant that is smal enough, it almost seems impossible for now. But if you have a loose fit you might be able to squeeze in a waterproof unit. EDIT: I got a message from my supplier that he will send my trackers tomorrow (monday), or some bricks or other junk that he will scam me with.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 151 #19 February 16, 2014 df8m1 ***I think I have found a GPS/GSM tracker that is suitable for the job. I have placed a order for 10 units (minimun order) to test it and see if it works. The only problem is the company is in China. And as I have read it can be problematic Are you approaching this from a personal perspective (one for yourself), or do you have a marketable solution in your sights? GSM based tracking for a lost main isn't going to be a commercially viable option. It will be a fun project I'm sure, but you will have terrible battery life and cost of ownership will be high, due to needing a mobile contract or pay as you go plan for the tracker. For many dzs cell coverage is marginal at best which is another problem. Still a fun project though.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #20 February 17, 2014 nigel99 ******I think I have found a GPS/GSM tracker that is suitable for the job. I have placed a order for 10 units (minimun order) to test it and see if it works. The only problem is the company is in China. And as I have read it can be problematic Are you approaching this from a personal perspective (one for yourself), or do you have a marketable solution in your sights? GSM based tracking for a lost main isn't going to be a commercially viable option. It will be a fun project I'm sure, but you will have terrible battery life and cost of ownership will be high, due to needing a mobile contract or pay as you go plan for the tracker. For many dzs cell coverage is marginal at best which is another problem. Still a fun project though. You seem to know it all about every country. My humble opinion is: Battery life is something I'm a bit unsure of, I have looked at so many units with very little details. But if I remember correct about this tracker, it's 12 days standby. And that should be good enough for most. Even if you only get half of it, it's still one week for a 100% jumper or 2 weekends for weekend jumpers. I have never heard of a country that does not have prepaid simcards. I guess you don't have them down there, but the rest of the world does and it's a cheap option for this use. And about cell coverage, yes that could be a problem. But I don't think it's such a big problem as it's something to worry about. And everyone knows how well the phones work in the DZ area, so buying a GSM based tracking device with bad coverage DZ is not very smart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
df8m1 20 #21 February 17, 2014 Seeing how accurate it is, is not a big deal. Just have someone go off some where that it would be hard to find a canopy and see if you can find them.. If it passes that test to a high enough degree, then the next step would be to have it turn on and off on its own, no sense having it running all the time when it only needs to be operational during a jump. Having it on only when the rig is in use will extend the battery life dramatically... Once it can turn on and off on its own, the next feature that would be nice would be to be able to charge the battery with out opening up the container. It is details like this that would really make it attractive. There are ways to do each, but it would take some investment to add to the device you intend to use.. Small steps lol... identify and over come one obstacle at a time, and eventually you will get to where you are going. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #22 February 17, 2014 All those ideas are correct and very nice to have. But they also cost a bunch and will increase the size of the unit making it harder to fit. As I understand it, this GPS has the GPS circuits turned off and once you ask for it's location it will be turned on and it takes a minute for it to send the reply sms. I have built (working) prototypes of turning on a device when needed. But it would cost to much to build both that and the device itself. EDIT: Quote Having it on only when the rig is in use will extend the battery life dramatically... Meaning only on during the day that you jump? Well that's an easy fix... Just open the rig and push the button My idea is to mount the GPS on the side facing up when the rig is packed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
df8m1 20 #23 February 17, 2014 Hellis All those ideas are correct and very nice to have. But they also cost a bunch and will increase the size of the unit making it harder to fit. As I understand it, this GPS has the GPS circuits turned off and once you ask for it's location it will be turned on and it takes a minute for it to send the reply sms. I have built (working) prototypes of turning on a device when needed. But it would cost to much to build both that and the device itself. There are always plusses and minuses to everything lol... I have looked at making something several times, but every time I just don't see the monetary incentive to develop something to a level that I would want. Even compared to $2K for a new canopy, that is cheaper than what my investment would be to make something cost effective while performing how I want it to.. I am really curious to see how this turns out.. Hellis Meaning only on during the day that you jump? Well that's an easy fix... Just open the rig and push the button My idea is to mount the GPS on the side facing up when the rig is packed. I mean it turns on during a jump and then off after a while of in activity unless it has been pinged, in which case it would remain on if it's operation requires it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #24 February 17, 2014 My idea was to have it turned off untill you cutaway. But it's "complex", can fail, costs money, larger than it has to be, and there is this "law" about failing at the wrong time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #25 February 18, 2014 df8m1 I am really curious to see how this turns out.. If I ever get them I think he is doing his best to trick me now. Apperently the logo of the gps is a problem for the local customs office.... Ehmm.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
