Intentional cutaway: advisable? accessible?

[Dionysus 0]

I would also agree with Ron and Billvon about the RWS rig being much more realistic. I made a jump with one at the Holiday boogie in Eloy a couple years ago and thought it was a very good experience. I wanted to do it as I thought it would be a good addition to hanging harness training. I think I had about 250-300 jumps at the time.

As for the rig the one I jumped had the main cutaway handle on the right main lift web but it was on the outboard side to clear the chest mount reserve. The Reserve ripcord was on the left main lift web, also facing outboard. The cutaway, a pillow handle, for the back mounted reserve was also on the left main lift web under the reserve ripcord. This was the one thing they really stressed during the training that since the two are stacked on top of each other you had to make sure that you only pulled the metal ripcord and not the metal ripcord with the pillow. Otherwise you would deploy the reserve and cut it away in one motion. The chest mounted reserve was deployed by a metal handle located on the front of it.

One humorous part about the cutaway was that the back mounted reserve had the PD Reserve logo in red sewn on the bottom. I remember thinking "what the hell!?" as I was just expecting a plain white canopy. It certainly gets some attention from the folks on the ground, which would explain why they did it.

[skydiverek 58]

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I know one very experienced jumper who is dead due to problems with an intentional cutaway rig.

Rob Harris?

BTW, JumpShack has/had a cutaway rig(s), too.

[Ron 7]

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Rob Harris?

Yep.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 3]

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BTW, the main that I chopped from was an old military C-8; ever heard of one of them?

Jerry,

Isn't a C-8 basically an all white C-9? I think the C-8 is a -1 of the same type and C-9 is the -2. I think.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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[JerryBaumchen 1,068]

Hi Sparky,

Re: the C-8

This thing was a C-9 'except' it had 'gore extensions/stabilizers' on every other gore. They extended down from the 'normal' skirt.

A friend had been jumping it when he was in the military in Viet Nam and he 'liberated' it when he got out.

It was the only I ever heard of or saw,

Jerry

[skr 1]

I have always been glad that I did some
intentional cutaways.

It removed the mysterious unknown aspect
of cutting away.

I think it should be a D license requirement
and be established custom that well designed
cutaway rigs plus a little training be easy to
get.

But then, I think a lot of things :-) :-)

----

On the other hand I remember another thread
somewhere where this question came up and
Bill Booth said he thought it was a bad idea.

I didn't understand his explanation, but he has
a lot of experience and he is a thinker, so it
cast a little shadow of uncertainty into my
thinking about this.

Skr

[Zing 2]

I did a number of intentional cutaways too ... both for demos and with the intent of having a rig set up for cutaways where you pulled handles located in the same places a "normal" rig has them.

Didn't matter if it was crudely rigged by me or expertly modified by a qualified rigger ... it added layers of complexity to the process and was never quite the same as a real emergency cutaway.

After more than a few Capewell cutaways, I still distinctly remember my first 3-ring cutaway ... it actually amazed and surprised me by how fast it was, that I flailed into instability rather than just falling away ... and it took a couple seconds to get stable and fire the spare.

Intellectually, I see potential benefits to having the opportunity for intentional cutaway practice, but in reality, the rigs available to do it with give only practice at something that will be different than an emergency cutaway. And add the potential for REAL problems to occur if the rig is not properly operated.

For myself, after 50-plus reserve rides and one minor reserve malfunction, I'm saving deployments of my spare for real emergencies.

Zing Lurks

[bch7773 0]

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>If you can get a real 3 canopy system where the handles are close to
>normal...then it is a great training aid.

Agreed. The Vector system is about as close to "reality" as you can get, and is a good option for people who want a more realistic simulation of a 'real' mal and cutaway.

I got to do a Vector Skyhook intentional chop this weekend, and was very happy I did it. I at least got to experience the feeling of cutting away... which reminded me of stalling a canopy... that weird backwards drop.

I also got to practice flying a reserve from the experience.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[frynsky 0]

I've got 6 cutaways, one intentional when I got the rig I have now, cus I wanted to check out my reserve. BUT I have a Vector 2 with a tersh mod. The tersh modification consists of D rings on the front of the harness. IF you can find a rig like this, it is great for a intentional cutaway cause your handles are in the correct place. You just connect your tersh to the front of the rig and you're good to go. I am not suggesting that you do or do not make an intentional, but I love having complete faith in my reserve, just in case, and mine was great with no problems. Blue Skies,,,,,

[skydiverek 58]

But... how do you cutaway your first reserve, if it has, let's say, a nasty spinning malfunction?

[frynsky 0]

Good point. You don't. In that case, you would end up with a two canopy out situation. My feelings, and I am a "old-timer", is that I have faith my reserve WILL work, and I think if you have doubts about that, you need to find another sport. I know that may sound harsh, but so be it. And, I really did mine to fly my new reserve, because it has been my experience that malfunctions occur when you least expect them and you often end up w a tight or undesirable landing area. Also, my tersh was a round canopy w/ a 20 ft bridle designed as a BASE tersh. So, it would actually open above your reserve.

[billvon 2,442]

>My feelings, and I am a "old-timer", is that I have faith my reserve
>WILL work . . . .

Hmm. I don't - which is why I endeavor to never test it out. (And if I did have to, I'd want to give it the best possible chance of opening normally.) Both main and reserve parachutes can fail to open correctly; we've had many stories (and a few incident reports) concerning the reserve not deploying as the cause of the incident.

Doesn't mean one has to obsess over it. But I think that a realistic assessment of the risks in skydiving (which I think all skydivers should do) includes the odds that your reserve will not deploy correctly. Are you OK with that tiny chance? If so, great. If not - best to re-evaluate your participation _before_ being confronted with that.

[pchapman 262]

Regarding making the cutaway from something other than a sedately flying canopy:

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So release one brake and ride it for a while before cutting away.

Yep, that should do it.

Or pull just one of the cutaway cables out, and ride that mal for a bit. I'd suggest it only for those who are already comfortable with doing a plain intentional cutaway.

I recently tried this release of one set of risers, and found the spin to be quite non-boring. Even starting with a large canopy, the 360 degree per second spin did seem to provide a good taste of a real malfunction, for those of us who haven't gotten one the natural way.

Even if the handles one uses aren't the same as during a real emergency, one still has to deal with finding a cutaway handle to pull, getting stable, and deploying one's next parachute.

While there are plenty of real mals on Skydivingmovies.com, intentional cutaways are almost non-existent. This is my intentional spinner:

One_sided_cutaway.wmv

[toronto_bill 0]

I had 400 jumps was an instructor, and decided to do an intentional. I felt a bit like a hypocrit, teaching the procedures and not having ever done it.

Jump went fine, except on reserve deployment I had a 20ft tertiary cone reserve (leg breaker) and my reserve opening was quick and snappy enough to cause the velcro holding the tert to peel off and hang half open. I grabbed it all and re-sealed it. landed fine.

Jumping a reserve as a main taught me more I would say, than my intentional.

Go to Deland. They should have all the answers and gear.

Bill