Using Transition Gear

[filip0721 0]

I graduated to my Solo status last weekend and this weekend will be jumping the transition gear thats available at my home DZ. The gear that i will be jumping is a Sabre 210 zp canopy. Is there any specific advice that the dropzone community could give me on this canopy and what to expect when transitioning from F111 288 student canopies?? I have gone through the advanced canopy control seminar offered at my DZ and have been checked out on the transition gear so i have a good idea of what to expect but would still appreciate the communities input.
I'm aware the canopy will be faster
Have quicker response to toggle inputs
I was told the flare will still be a gradual flare
That the opening period is longer then the larger student canopies.

Any input is welcome!!

[drudchen 0]

First of all, you will have a cypres/vigil now as opposed to an FXC. You need to make sure it is turned on during the safety check on the ground. Make sure the vigil is set to correct setting (Student/Pro/Tandem).
Also, transition rental gear has collapsible pilotchute. You need to cock it when packing, and to make sure that the little window on the bridle is black during the safety check.
The slider is collapsible too. After the canopy opens, you can pull on the two kill-lines to collapse it. .. removes the annoying flapping noise
Also, an important point is that there is no RSL.

And as you said, the canopy will be faster, more responsive. With a smaller canopy you can have lots of fun with spirals, but there is also a chance that you can induce line twists when doing so. You'll have more flare power, and need to use that flare carefully. A more dynamic flare would be a good idea.
When it comes to opening, I dont think a Sabre will open slower than a Manta. If anything, it will open a little bit faster.

Edited to add that the student Mantas are intentially set up to have brake lines pretty long and nearly impossible to stall without taking wraps. The stall point on the transition gear is much higher. The good thing is that if you know what you're doing you can have a more graceful landings using every last bit of flare power. But there's a significant danger of stalling the canopy unintentionally. A good thing would be to open high on a few jumps, find the stall point, know what it feels like when the stall is coming.

Edit2: Disclaimer: this post is based on the knowledge of both student gear and the 210 rental rig in question. This allowed to avoid generalized talk, assumptions, and is straight to a point. The downside is that it may NOT apply to other dropzones, rigs and gear available.

[GaryRay 0]

i know im pretty damn new, actually very new but correct me if im wrong, isnt a jump from 288 to 210 quite a big change of wingload? i dont know how big of a person you are but thats just what came to mind when i read your post. sorry just my $.02.

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[Fast 0]

Quote

First of all, you will have a cypres/vigil now as opposed to an FXC. You need to make sure it is turned on during the safety check on the ground. Make sure the vigil is set to correct setting (Student/Pro/Tandem).
Also, transition rental gear has collapsible pilotchute. You need to cock it when packing, and to make sure that the little window on the bridle is black during the safety check.
The slider is collapsible too. After the canopy opens, you can pull on the two kill-lines to collapse it. .. removes the annoying flapping noise
Also, an important point is that there is no RSL.

And as you said, the canopy will be faster, more responsive. With a smaller canopy you can have lots of fun with spirals, but there is also a chance that you can induce line twists when doing so. You'll have more flare power, and need to use that flare carefully. A more dynamic flare would be a good idea.
When it comes to opening, I dont think a Sabre will open slower than a Manta. If anything, it will open a little bit faster.

Edited to add that the student Mantas are intentially set up to have brake lines pretty long and nearly impossible to stall without taking wraps. The stall point on the transition gear is much higher. The good thing is that if you know what you're doing you can have a more graceful landings using every last bit of flare power. But there's a significant danger of stalling the canopy unintentionally. A good thing would be to open high on a few jumps, find the stall point, know what it feels like when the stall is coming.

Suggestion. Refer any questions you have about what you should and should not do with the gear to your instructor at the dz. Just cause he was jumping a manta before doesn't mean he wouldn't have been jumping something with a cypress or vigil. I would suggest getting instruction on the type of AAD that is in the rig.

Kill line is black huh? I have never seen that on my rig, I must be doing something wrong. Saying the little window is black could mean that the kill line is broken, it could mean lots of things. Thats why it is best to have a rig or some tools to demonstrate what you are saying before you confuse someone. There are lots of different types of gear and drudchen is making a lot of assumptions about what you are going to be using. Like I already said, please refer to your instructor.

The slider might be collapsable. It doesn't have to be. Unless you jump at the same dz this person does, again, he is making an assumption.

As for the "edited to add" portion. Again, it might be the case, but, don't suggest to students that they open high. They might just do that and fuck thier instructors. Please follow the training program at your dz. I am sure your instructors know what they are doing.

I agree it is good to know what an impending stall feels like that, and at some point that will be learned, but not till your instructors think it is a good idea.

That is my ten cents.


On a completely different note. I hope you do awesome and remember to have fun. Skydiving is a whole lot of fun! I would bet that you are going to do just fine and have a great time.



To the other poster, going from a 288 f111 to a 210 zp might be a big step, it all depends on the individual person. What I can tell you is that I did it and so do all the other people who learn to skydive at my dz. They get moved on over when they have the skill set to handle the faster main.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[drudchen 0]

Quote

Suggestion. Refer any questions you have about what you should and should not do with the gear to your instructor at the dz. Just cause he was jumping a manta before doesn't mean he wouldn't have been jumping something with a cypress or vigil. I would suggest getting instruction on the type of AAD that is in the rig.

Kill line is black huh? I have never seen that on my rig, I must be doing something wrong. Saying the little window is black could mean that the kill line is broken, it could mean lots of things. Thats why it is best to have a rig or some tools to demonstrate what you are saying before you confuse someone. There are lots of different types of gear and drudchen is making a lot of assumptions about what you are going to be using. Like I already said, please refer to your instructor.

The slider might be collapsable. It doesn't have to be. Unless you jump at the same dz this person does, again, you are making an assumption.

As for the "edited to add" portion. Again, it might be the case, but, don't suggest to students that they open high. They might just do that and fuck thier instructors. Please follow the training program at your dz. I am sure your instructors know what they are doing.

I agree it is good to know what an impending stall feels like that, and at some point that will be learned, but not till your instructors think it is a good idea.

That is my ten cents.

Sorry, I should have made it more clear. I jump at the same dropzone (you'd see it if you clicked and saw both profiles). I jumped all student and rental gear available at the dz. I also saw a few of Phil's landings.

[Fast 0]

Quote

Sorry, I should have made it more clear. I jump at the same dropzone (you'd see it if you clicked and saw both profiles). I jumped all student and rental gear available at the dz. I also saw a few of Phil's landings.

Sure but most people reading the thread don't know that and aren't going to click on the profiles. They will read the post and take it at face value and translate it to thier DZ. Though, I still think non-instructors need to be carefull about giving students suggestions.

Thanks for clarifying and many blue skies to ya!

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[popsjumper 2]

Sounds like you have a good grip on things already.

The suggestion to open high and re-learn canopy characteristics is a good one. Stall point is especially handy. Flare practice is especially handy. Doing controllability checks is handy.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[filip0721 0]

Thanks Drudchen. Most of the information you gave me and the various other posters i'm already aware of though thanks for the heads up on the possibly causing line twists when playing around on the front risers. That was not discussed. I didn't know the slider is collapsable on that one thats interesting. As for the post saying i could screw up my instructor by opening high well at this stage i am self supervised so no instructor to screw up but still good advice. When i do chose to open high all the jumpers on my load WILL be made aware of it though. I'm very concencious of the safety issues when jumping with other jumpers and will not sacrifice their or my safety for fun or any such thing. Keep the posts coming though any information on the canopies behaviour is welcome and a learning experience. I would like to make posters aware that i do and will without a doubt always refer questions first and foremost to the Instructors at the DZ this is a supplementary source of information that is partially taken with a grain of salt. Thanks All!

[filip0721 0]

Drudchen or any other poster for that matter. When i was going to jump the 210 last weekend and did the safety check the vigil was set to a PRO setting. Drudchen better knows my experience level to date since he does jump with me but the question is open to all with 18 jumps and a self supervised level of certification should that vigil be set at PRO ?? or is it more beneficial and safe for it to be on student?? Also what do these settings impact on the vigil?

[JoeG 0]

Quote

Also, an important point is that there is no RSL.

Are you sure there is no RSL?

CSPA BSR 2.10:

Quote

All students shall use container systems fitted with a
reserve static line (RSL) to back up the activation of the
reserve following release from the main canopy. The reserve
static line should be installed regardless of whether the
container systems release/reserve activation system is a
Single Operation System (S.O.S.), or Two Action System
(T.A.S.).

_________________________________________
"Knowledge is Power!"

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

Quote

Also, an important point is that there is no RSL.

Are you sure there is no RSL?

CSPA BSR 2.10:
***All students shall use container systems fitted with a
reserve static line (RSL) to back up the activation of the
reserve following release from the main canopy. ...

The OP said he has graduated to solo status; a student is anyone who has not been issued a solo certificate.

[JoeG 0]

Thanks for the info. I am still unsure of all the differences between USPA and CSPA.

I was told one is a student until licensed. I hope to be one much longer though

_________________________________________
"Knowledge is Power!"

[Andrewwhyte 1]

When you do get your license, leave the RSL on just the same.