freakydiver 0 #1 June 13, 2003 In your careers, have you ever run into such a daunting problem that you've felt like you are no longer adequate as a programmer and should get the heck out of the business?? I've been writing professional code for eight years and have never felt like that until this week. I just can't solve this dang problem and its starting to mess with my mind quite a bit to the point where its interfering with my normal everyday work progress. I've tried everything out there, but the fact of the matter is, the code/solution I'm building has never really been done before. How did you deal with it? Work more?? Take a step back?? I just cannot seem to get over the hump... All I want to do is jump... (lol maybe I could be a rapper instead of a coder LOLOL)... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #2 June 13, 2003 Yeah, take a step back, always works for me. What's the problem?Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #3 June 13, 2003 The problem is object management between four different languages and I just cannot get my head around it. I'm working in VB6, MapObjects, built a custom C++ grid solution as well as some Java and I just cannot keep track of what is what and where what belongs anymore. I think I'm right on the cusp of either becoming a really advanced programmer or jumping off of the local 100 foot tower wo a canopy (not serious)... btw - "Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes" - nice... Its just getting to the point where I'm running out of steam and I've never felt like that before. I've generally always found a solution. Heck, I have seriously dreamed/nightmared about this code three out of four nights this week rofl... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #4 June 13, 2003 I used to be a full time programmer, wrote tons of apps and utilities, however, one day I realized it was a dead end, so, I changed fields, now, I'm a 'problem solver' (for lack of a better term), I still write code, but just for fun or if there is something I need and there is nothing out there. Maybe you should consider the same route, it worked for me, I'm always learning more stuff, always up to date and sometimes making more money. My 2 cents.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #5 June 13, 2003 QuoteYeah, take a step back, always works for me. What's the problem? Second that. Whenever I hit a block when trying to solve a problem, go do something else. Don't worry, it'll nag at your subconscious and the solution, or at least a new course of action will pop into your head. Also, try collaboration. Sometimes another point of view really helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #6 June 13, 2003 Ok, well seriously I'd take a step back. Go out and come back with a fresh head. Other than that, I can't help, but for great programming advice and assistance I'd recommend getting over to see these guys - http://www.dotdragnet.comNext Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #7 June 13, 2003 I don't know that what I'm doing is a dead end since its never been done in the environmental science world ever - but I've just never run into an issue this difficult and have no one to turn to because of the fact that its never been done before... But hey - I'm starting to think that maybe my brain could be utilized in a "more fun" fashion whilst still getting a decent salary doin somethin else! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #8 June 13, 2003 Right on - thanks! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #9 June 13, 2003 Quote btw - "Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes" - nice... reply]Didn't see that before. Glad you liked it, am a typical female i'm afraid Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites narcimund 0 #10 June 13, 2003 I'm wholly responsible for the ever-changing code behind a retail website selling over $5,000,000 per year. Lately sales have been $30k per DAY. There are usually dozens of simultaneous connections. The site breaks its own sales records 5 times per month. Every time I add/mod/del something and the site goes down for even a minute, I feel a twinge of what you mean. Last month for a variety of simultaneous reasons the site was largely unusable for most of a weekend while I was off skydiving. There was much remorse and self-doubt. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Push 0 #11 June 13, 2003 I don't know anything about what you're writing, but it sounds like your program is getting more complicated than it should. If your head begins to swim from its design, take a step back and add abstraction levels. It doesn't take very long but it breaks the code down into manageable components that you can then black box and not worry about their implementations. But being 8 years in the business you probably understand all this Have you looked at .NET? VB6, C++ are available almost directly, C# is very similar to Java, I don't know about MapObjects but you could work something out. The benefit is that .NET is simply one language in many forms, not different languages. You can use everything, every available language, all at once, and you don't need to make any ActiveX components or COM object models or any such crap. You can literally implement different methods of the same class in five different languages, add them all to the project, hit compile, and watch it run. It's more complicated than that, of course, but not by much. I know what a pain in the arse it is to integrate languages in MS's old model (it's done in the project I'm working with now), and .NET is heaven after that. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jerm 0 #12 June 13, 2003 my solution was always spend a week trying to fix it.... take a day off, go jump.. get a good night's sleep, some back refreshed in the morning and find the : that should have been a ; YMMV... good luck Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #13 June 13, 2003 I agree with Eugene about using .NET, it's great the way the you can seamlessly integrate any of the languages within the .NET framework and it's fairly straightforward to use older COM components as well (heck, we're even talking to older apps using DDE.) However, since you probably have a lot of code written that you may not want/be allowed to port over then I agree with what else has been said - take a break. Work on something else or go jump. Clear your mind and the solution will usually find its way in. If you want to get into specifics I would definitely be willing (and I'm sure a lot of others here would too) to look over any code or answer specific questions if we can help. Good luck! Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakydiver 0 #14 June 13, 2003 Yah I use dot net all over the place... Unfortunately, my issue has more to do with Esri's MapObjects which basically allows one to build spatial apps. It is dot net extensible but the DOE which is our client hasn't approved dot net (man that would save us some time and money and them too - MORONS )... Anyhow - thanks all for your responses, its good to know I'm not the only one out there pulling hair out every once and awhile. Jumping necessary - coding not I've been putting in 70+ hour weeks for three weeks in a row now to figure this dang problem out and its just not happening and I'm starting to feel way inadequate. Maybe the weekend will help out and thanks again all! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #15 June 13, 2003 I know nothing about MapObjects, but I do know a lot about pulling my hair out every once in a while. We (I) had to write something to launch an IE web browser in the background, load an xml doc. that we generated, change the print preferences, print, and change the preferences back. The printing stuff IE does not support through their API so we had to do a low level hook. When you're working with hooks and you hit a breakpoint or run-time error the whole IDE would blow up and disappear, now those were fun bugs to hunt down! We've had more problems trying to interface with M$ products (even using their published APIs) than anything else. Misery loves company and there's a lot of us with those problems too Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakydiver 0 #16 June 13, 2003 MO (MapObjects) is actually pretty darn neat - just picked it up a couple of months ago. http://www.esri.com/software/mapobjects/index.html Its very extensible in mucho languages... M$ is so much fun sometimes aint it??? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #17 June 13, 2003 QuoteMO (MapObjects) is actually pretty darn neat - just picked it up a couple of months ago. http://www.esri.com/software/mapobjects/index.html I'm there checking it out now - looks very cool QuoteM$ is so much fun sometimes aint it??? They do write some excellent software. Unfortunately it takes them about 5 - 10 releases to get it to work. If only we could all use Unix...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #18 June 13, 2003 well you could get a call from your government rep saying the proposal to update wasnt accepted so you'll have to incorporate a 10 year old legacy system written in ADA ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #19 June 13, 2003 Besides taking a step back have you asked someone else to look at it and give their thoughts? I have often found that in many aspects, the person you least expect or you feel has no possible input, can provide you with some fresh if not innovative ways to overcome a problem that may not have been readily apparent to you. Often times, the most unconventional route/soulution is found by the layman putting his 2 cents in and stimulating yours."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #20 June 13, 2003 QuoteIn your careers, have you ever run into such a daunting problem that you've felt like you are no longer adequate as a programmer and should get the heck out of the business?? I've been writing professional code for eight years and have never felt like that until this week. I just can't solve this dang problem and its starting to mess with my mind quite a bit to the point where its interfering with my normal everyday work progress. I've tried everything out there, but the fact of the matter is, the code/solution I'm building has never really been done before. How did you deal with it? Work more?? Take a step back?? I just cannot seem to get over the hump... All I want to do is jump... (lol maybe I could be a rapper instead of a coder LOLOL)... This is whats called being "burnt out", went through the same thing last several months. You know everything comes in phases, when you do it every day you get burnt out for a while but then eventually you start getting back on track. Thats just the way it is, dont worry about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Luminous 0 #21 June 13, 2003 I've been in IT since high school, (20+ years), and a programmer for 15 or so of those years. The only time I've felt no longer adequate is after I read all this stuff. I've nothing to add.... Except for maybe... "SHUT UP AND JUMP!". A great weekend to all.'In an insane society a sane person seems insane.' Mr. Spock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Schroeder 0 #22 June 13, 2003 Hey, I work with GIS all the time, ESRI, you say... Cool. I'm intrigued....I'm in Civil Municpal Design, and spent a few years in the environmental sector as well. Remediation mostly, I created the systems that a few of the big guys in the lower mainland like Morrow Env, Gartner Lee, etc use to manage and combine the geospatial data with analyitical. I was on the AutoDesk MAP side of things more than the ERSI side, but I kmow where you're coming from. Just take a step back, like the others say. And who knows, more than once the solution to problems like yours have been delivered to me in my dreams. You'll nail it. If I ventured in the slipstream; Between the via-ducts of your dreams.......could you find me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frodo 0 #23 June 14, 2003 Hmm... I used to study programming, in fact I'd studied it for 2 years, until recently I lost interest in it for some reason, and decided that I wanna be a professional astronomer Anyway, I just saw the word "programmers" and thought I have to leave my mark here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #24 June 14, 2003 It usually helps me when I reduce it to bits and bytes... But I sometimes call myself a C programmer and I avoid all those fancy new IDE's like the plague... I even did VRML with C once...it was nuts. /me ducks. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon 0 #25 June 14, 2003 That's funny. I wanted to be a professional astronomer and ended up a programmer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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narcimund 0 #10 June 13, 2003 I'm wholly responsible for the ever-changing code behind a retail website selling over $5,000,000 per year. Lately sales have been $30k per DAY. There are usually dozens of simultaneous connections. The site breaks its own sales records 5 times per month. Every time I add/mod/del something and the site goes down for even a minute, I feel a twinge of what you mean. Last month for a variety of simultaneous reasons the site was largely unusable for most of a weekend while I was off skydiving. There was much remorse and self-doubt. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #11 June 13, 2003 I don't know anything about what you're writing, but it sounds like your program is getting more complicated than it should. If your head begins to swim from its design, take a step back and add abstraction levels. It doesn't take very long but it breaks the code down into manageable components that you can then black box and not worry about their implementations. But being 8 years in the business you probably understand all this Have you looked at .NET? VB6, C++ are available almost directly, C# is very similar to Java, I don't know about MapObjects but you could work something out. The benefit is that .NET is simply one language in many forms, not different languages. You can use everything, every available language, all at once, and you don't need to make any ActiveX components or COM object models or any such crap. You can literally implement different methods of the same class in five different languages, add them all to the project, hit compile, and watch it run. It's more complicated than that, of course, but not by much. I know what a pain in the arse it is to integrate languages in MS's old model (it's done in the project I'm working with now), and .NET is heaven after that. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #12 June 13, 2003 my solution was always spend a week trying to fix it.... take a day off, go jump.. get a good night's sleep, some back refreshed in the morning and find the : that should have been a ; YMMV... good luck Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #13 June 13, 2003 I agree with Eugene about using .NET, it's great the way the you can seamlessly integrate any of the languages within the .NET framework and it's fairly straightforward to use older COM components as well (heck, we're even talking to older apps using DDE.) However, since you probably have a lot of code written that you may not want/be allowed to port over then I agree with what else has been said - take a break. Work on something else or go jump. Clear your mind and the solution will usually find its way in. If you want to get into specifics I would definitely be willing (and I'm sure a lot of others here would too) to look over any code or answer specific questions if we can help. Good luck! Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #14 June 13, 2003 Yah I use dot net all over the place... Unfortunately, my issue has more to do with Esri's MapObjects which basically allows one to build spatial apps. It is dot net extensible but the DOE which is our client hasn't approved dot net (man that would save us some time and money and them too - MORONS )... Anyhow - thanks all for your responses, its good to know I'm not the only one out there pulling hair out every once and awhile. Jumping necessary - coding not I've been putting in 70+ hour weeks for three weeks in a row now to figure this dang problem out and its just not happening and I'm starting to feel way inadequate. Maybe the weekend will help out and thanks again all! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #15 June 13, 2003 I know nothing about MapObjects, but I do know a lot about pulling my hair out every once in a while. We (I) had to write something to launch an IE web browser in the background, load an xml doc. that we generated, change the print preferences, print, and change the preferences back. The printing stuff IE does not support through their API so we had to do a low level hook. When you're working with hooks and you hit a breakpoint or run-time error the whole IDE would blow up and disappear, now those were fun bugs to hunt down! We've had more problems trying to interface with M$ products (even using their published APIs) than anything else. Misery loves company and there's a lot of us with those problems too Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #16 June 13, 2003 MO (MapObjects) is actually pretty darn neat - just picked it up a couple of months ago. http://www.esri.com/software/mapobjects/index.html Its very extensible in mucho languages... M$ is so much fun sometimes aint it??? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #17 June 13, 2003 QuoteMO (MapObjects) is actually pretty darn neat - just picked it up a couple of months ago. http://www.esri.com/software/mapobjects/index.html I'm there checking it out now - looks very cool QuoteM$ is so much fun sometimes aint it??? They do write some excellent software. Unfortunately it takes them about 5 - 10 releases to get it to work. If only we could all use Unix...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #18 June 13, 2003 well you could get a call from your government rep saying the proposal to update wasnt accepted so you'll have to incorporate a 10 year old legacy system written in ADA ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #19 June 13, 2003 Besides taking a step back have you asked someone else to look at it and give their thoughts? I have often found that in many aspects, the person you least expect or you feel has no possible input, can provide you with some fresh if not innovative ways to overcome a problem that may not have been readily apparent to you. Often times, the most unconventional route/soulution is found by the layman putting his 2 cents in and stimulating yours."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumprunner 0 #20 June 13, 2003 QuoteIn your careers, have you ever run into such a daunting problem that you've felt like you are no longer adequate as a programmer and should get the heck out of the business?? I've been writing professional code for eight years and have never felt like that until this week. I just can't solve this dang problem and its starting to mess with my mind quite a bit to the point where its interfering with my normal everyday work progress. I've tried everything out there, but the fact of the matter is, the code/solution I'm building has never really been done before. How did you deal with it? Work more?? Take a step back?? I just cannot seem to get over the hump... All I want to do is jump... (lol maybe I could be a rapper instead of a coder LOLOL)... This is whats called being "burnt out", went through the same thing last several months. You know everything comes in phases, when you do it every day you get burnt out for a while but then eventually you start getting back on track. Thats just the way it is, dont worry about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luminous 0 #21 June 13, 2003 I've been in IT since high school, (20+ years), and a programmer for 15 or so of those years. The only time I've felt no longer adequate is after I read all this stuff. I've nothing to add.... Except for maybe... "SHUT UP AND JUMP!". A great weekend to all.'In an insane society a sane person seems insane.' Mr. Spock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #22 June 13, 2003 Hey, I work with GIS all the time, ESRI, you say... Cool. I'm intrigued....I'm in Civil Municpal Design, and spent a few years in the environmental sector as well. Remediation mostly, I created the systems that a few of the big guys in the lower mainland like Morrow Env, Gartner Lee, etc use to manage and combine the geospatial data with analyitical. I was on the AutoDesk MAP side of things more than the ERSI side, but I kmow where you're coming from. Just take a step back, like the others say. And who knows, more than once the solution to problems like yours have been delivered to me in my dreams. You'll nail it. If I ventured in the slipstream; Between the via-ducts of your dreams.......could you find me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frodo 0 #23 June 14, 2003 Hmm... I used to study programming, in fact I'd studied it for 2 years, until recently I lost interest in it for some reason, and decided that I wanna be a professional astronomer Anyway, I just saw the word "programmers" and thought I have to leave my mark here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #24 June 14, 2003 It usually helps me when I reduce it to bits and bytes... But I sometimes call myself a C programmer and I avoid all those fancy new IDE's like the plague... I even did VRML with C once...it was nuts. /me ducks. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon 0 #25 June 14, 2003 That's funny. I wanted to be a professional astronomer and ended up a programmer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
nathaniel 0 #24 June 14, 2003 It usually helps me when I reduce it to bits and bytes... But I sometimes call myself a C programmer and I avoid all those fancy new IDE's like the plague... I even did VRML with C once...it was nuts. /me ducks. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon 0 #25 June 14, 2003 That's funny. I wanted to be a professional astronomer and ended up a programmer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
