Schroeder 0 #76 July 10, 2003 Quotenecessary evil. See, me I don't see it as a 'necessary evil'. I too have hunted, and fished, hell, trapped as well, I grew up in a small northern community and a moose in the fall set us up pretty well for the winter. On the one hand you have black and white, meat eater, non-meater. On the other you have various shades of grey. Are you gonna tell me it's a "necessary evil" that we have 1.50 hamburgers 24hs a day? Or that 'meateaters' really _need_ that level of meat intake? and I don't know about your Chlorophyl theory there.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #77 July 10, 2003 Yeah, it may possibly be natural for ANIMALS to torture and kill lesser animals, but as HUMAN BEINGS (who are the much more intelligent species, right?), it's pretty primitive and indicative of a less evolved brain in my opinion. I am by no means a cruel person, but I think it's poetic justice that these fools got hurt doing this. In fact, I laughed out loud when I saw it on the news. The event is cruel - period. I am no activist either, just someone with a bit of common sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #78 July 10, 2003 I am by no means a cruel person, but I think it's poetic justice that these fools got hurt doing this. In fact, I laughed out loud when I saw it on the news. It is cruel. I am no activist either, just someone with a bit of common sense. ---------------------------------------------- Ok just to be clear here the running of the bulls is something that they do once a year in Pamplona. It is followed by a bull fight but its not by any means a bull fight. The people that got hurt there are NOT matadors and they could be anybody. Hell it could have been me if I decided to run out with the rest of the group of men who suddenly wished to run in front of the bulls. Actually in this event most of the people who get hurt are hurt because they are stomped on by people behind them trying to run away from the bulls. Its really a fun event, its just unfortunat that it is followed by leading the bulls into the arena for bull fighting.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #79 July 10, 2003 QuoteHUMAN BEINGS (who are the much more intelligent species, right?), it's pretty primitive and indicative of a less evolved brain in my opinion. And who said humans are HIGHLY evolved?, we are still animals who depend on nature to survive.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #80 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteif you feel so damn bad for the animal, feel bad for all the animals. Don't be selective. However, killing animals for food, whether it is right or wrong, is still different than torturing them - be it a bull or a fish - for entertainment. ... Keely, I hate to tell you this but the animals you eat for food ARE tortured. In fact their entire lives are torture, not just the last part of their lives in a slaughterhouse. Read about the conditions under which factory farmed animals (which is where your meat comes from) live. You may be more inspired to give vegetarianism another try. And by the way, vegetarians are MORE healthy than meat eaters. They live longer too. Just educate yourself first as to what you need to eat to get everything you need. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #81 July 10, 2003 Quote I am by no means a cruel person, but I think it's poetic justice that these fools got hurt doing this. In fact, I laughed out loud when I saw it on the news. what you have to remember is that the people who get hurt during the running of the bulls AREN'T the ones who kill the bulls. yes, some of them may watch the bulls get killed, but they are just watching. They don't deserve to die or get terribly injured because they are addreniline-seekers and wanted to run in front of a bunch of bulls. Now, when the bull fighters themselves get injured, I don't feel bad, because they are the ones fighting the bulls, and they accepted the risk when they stepped into the ring. its just the spanish culture that bulls die in the bull fight. its no different then some american cultural things, such as owning guns, or lighting off fireworks on the 4th of july. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #82 July 10, 2003 QuoteI went to a slaughter house a few years back ,out of curiousity,I managed to get a tour when they where fully at work,so you can imagine... I have seen the cow from get stunned,then butchered ,all within minutes,and some of the tools these guys use make ' Jason' look like childs play. Just a thought really,but I wonder if anyone seen this ,would it change there view on eating meat? I try to maintain a healthy diet and try to cut out as much meat as possible.But after my visit,it was a few weeks before I touched Beef or Lamb again !! And what's WORSE than the slaughter is how they live up until then. People are so deluded - they think that the cows and pigs and chickens they eat roam and graze freely up until that unfortunate time when it's off to the slaughterhouse - the truth is not even close. They live in close confined quarters, in filth, alot of them never seeing the light of day, ever. Why do you think they have to cut baby chicken's beaks off? B/c they are stuffed so tight into chicken coops all their lives that they "go nuts" and will peck each other to death. And that's just one example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #83 July 10, 2003 vegetarians are MORE healthy than meat eaters. They live longer too. Just educate yourself first as to what you need to eat to get everything you need. --------------------------------------------------- If you can find me a vegitarian who can bench over 300 pounds I will consider it. Hell I don't even think you will find a vegitarian who can bench over 200 pounds. For women it could be cute to be weak but its still not healthy.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #84 July 10, 2003 Quote As you have stated they kill the animals in the most humae way possible. . This is a nice thought but it is simply untrue. The meat industry is a business. And their business is producing the most amount of meat in the shortest amount of time, in the least expensive way possible. This is just not conducive to humane treatment, trust me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #85 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteHUMAN BEINGS (who are the much more intelligent species, right?), it's pretty primitive and indicative of a less evolved brain in my opinion. And who said humans are HIGHLY evolved?, we are still animals who depend on nature to survive. I don't know who said that, do you? It certainly wasn't me. Anyway, yes, we do depend on nature to survive - no argument there. But while I can't speak for you, I like to think that I am "evolved" and intelligent enough to chose not to "torture or kill" lesser creatures. Isn't that the very thing that separtes us from the animals - compassion? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #86 July 10, 2003 Quote And by the way, vegetarians are MORE healthy than meat eaters. They live longer too. Just educate yourself first as to what you need to eat to get everything you need. no they are not, not by any virtue of vegetarianism, the difference is your average vegetarian is more health conscious in general than your average meat eater. That overall health awareness and the lifestyle choices that go with it is what makes the difference, not the specific preference not to eat meat.. as you say educate yourself, but learn to read thru the agendas on each side as well, i know quite a number of carnivorous humans who would run your average vegetarian into the ground and keep going longer and with less pack volume and processing steps by eating meat than a vegetarian would on their substitutes.. QuoteNow as for people eating dogs, cats, snakes or other carnivores, these people are going against nature check your facts.. dogs and cats are omnivores, as are lots of snakes...and gator meat is GOOD when prepared right..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #87 July 10, 2003 This is a nice thought but it is simply untrue. The meat industry is a business. And their business is producing the most amount of meat in the shortest amount of time, in the least expensive way possible. This is just not conducive to humane treatment, trust me. --------------------------------------------------------- I understand this and I don't doubt it. But what can you do to stop it? Populations keep growing and bringning more need for beef. Meat companies need to compete not only to make more money but just to stay in business. The only practal solution I see would be to hunt for yourself, get a freezer and store your meat. I am not quite prepared to do that. Besides even if I was I don't think I could make a difference. For it to make a difference more people would have to be involved and most people who care are women. The overwelming majority of them could never get passed their emotions long enough to go out and hunt for themselves even after understanding that this would be the lesser evil.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #88 July 10, 2003 Last time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... QuoteI like to think that I am "evolved" and intelligent enough to chose not to "torture or kill" lesser creatures Its always a case of were a person draw the line. I respect your decision not to eat meat, please respect others...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #89 July 10, 2003 Quote --------------------------------------------------- If you can find me a vegitarian who can bench over 300 pounds I will consider it. Hell I don't even think you will find a vegitarian who can bench over 200 pounds. For women it could be cute to be weak but its still not healthy. Based on current research (not the outdated research that you may be thinking of), vegetarians do not lack muscle building ability at all. They are just as strong and are healthier than meat eaters. They live YEARS longer (that says a lot!). l am vegetarian and believe me, I am very strong. I even compete in triathlons. Also, since becoming a vegetarian 5 1/2 yrs ago, I have not been sick once (knock on wood), not even a cold. Go figure.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #90 July 10, 2003 QuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... QuoteAnd the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber. And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself. And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest. And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil. One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear. And terror possesed me then. And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?" And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust." And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!" Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus. Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........ This is necessary. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #91 July 10, 2003 QuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... ... Oh come on, not the plant argument! I guess I need to spell out I am talking about living things with CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEMS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #92 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuote what you have to remember is that the people who get hurt during the running of the bulls AREN'T the ones who kill the bulls. They are still supporting the event by participating in it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Steel 0 #93 July 10, 2003 They live YEARS longer (that says a lot!) ------------------------------------------------- Think about this for a second what percentage of vegitarians are women? I am not sure off hand but I believe the life expectency for women is at least 10 years more than men.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #94 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... ... Oh come on, not the plant argument! I guess I need to spell out I am talking about living things with CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEMS. so your importance to the 'life cycle' and your place in it is determined by your ability to experience pain? a bit unenlightened dont you think? life is life. somethings are nessesary.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyIvan 0 #95 July 10, 2003 QuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... True, why you people with LAWNS torture the POOR grass? cutting them all the time not allowing it to grow....that's PURE TORTURE!!! __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites allicat 0 #96 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... ... Oh come on, not the plant argument! I guess I need to spell out I am talking about living things with CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEMS. so your importance to the 'life cycle' and your place in it is determined by your ability to experience pain? a bit unenlightened dont you think? life is life. somethings are nessesary. Unenlightened? I don't even know how to respond to that. All I am saying is that, no, watching a plant be dismembered does not hurt my feelings. Watching a person or animal be dismembered? Yes that hurts my feelings. Why? The former does not feel pain and suffering, the latter does. It's pretty simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #97 July 10, 2003 QuoteOh come on, not the plant argument! Why the hell not? Dont use the "Not killing innocent animals" then.... dont get me worng, I'm sure one can lead a very healthy lifestyle by being a vegeterain (and probably an omnivore too) and if that suits your lifestyle, then great! As Westerners, we eat too much. Thats the main reason people who eat less and are more carefull about what they eat live longer. Vegetarians, as a whole, are more health conscious since the already made a very conscious desision about their eating habits. Most omnivores havent. But please, dont be so high and might about saving the lives of the little critters..... coz then your argument looses all respectability to me anyways....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites allicat 0 #98 July 10, 2003 QuoteThey live YEARS longer (that says a lot!) ------------------------------------------------- Think about this for a second what percentage of vegitarians are women? I am not sure off hand but I believe the life expectency for women is at least 10 years more than men. Yes, the studies control for sex. Put more simply, female vegetarians live longer than female non-vegetarians. Male vegetarians live longer than male non-vegetarians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #99 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... ... Oh come on, not the plant argument! I guess I need to spell out I am talking about living things with CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEMS. so your importance to the 'life cycle' and your place in it is determined by your ability to experience pain? a bit unenlightened dont you think? life is life. somethings are nessesary. Unenlightened? I don't even know how to respond to that. All I am saying is that, no, watching a plant be dismembered does not hurt my feelings. Watching a person or animal be dismembered? Yes that hurts my feelings. Why? The former does not feel pain and suffering, the latter does. It's pretty simple. so your basing a scientific observation (killing animals is bad, but killing plants is ok) on an emotional response? enlightenment is recognizing that ALL life has value and that it is taken to benifit other lives as part of a continuing cycle. Respect for the sacrifice (unwilling in all cases) of another life (any life) is far more important than "feeling' good because carrots dont bleed...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #100 July 10, 2003 Quotebecause carrots dont bleed they do when you put them in the Juicer... lolRemster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 4 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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Steel 0 #93 July 10, 2003 They live YEARS longer (that says a lot!) ------------------------------------------------- Think about this for a second what percentage of vegitarians are women? I am not sure off hand but I believe the life expectency for women is at least 10 years more than men.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #94 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... ... Oh come on, not the plant argument! I guess I need to spell out I am talking about living things with CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEMS. so your importance to the 'life cycle' and your place in it is determined by your ability to experience pain? a bit unenlightened dont you think? life is life. somethings are nessesary.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #95 July 10, 2003 QuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... True, why you people with LAWNS torture the POOR grass? cutting them all the time not allowing it to grow....that's PURE TORTURE!!! __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #96 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... ... Oh come on, not the plant argument! I guess I need to spell out I am talking about living things with CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEMS. so your importance to the 'life cycle' and your place in it is determined by your ability to experience pain? a bit unenlightened dont you think? life is life. somethings are nessesary. Unenlightened? I don't even know how to respond to that. All I am saying is that, no, watching a plant be dismembered does not hurt my feelings. Watching a person or animal be dismembered? Yes that hurts my feelings. Why? The former does not feel pain and suffering, the latter does. It's pretty simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #97 July 10, 2003 QuoteOh come on, not the plant argument! Why the hell not? Dont use the "Not killing innocent animals" then.... dont get me worng, I'm sure one can lead a very healthy lifestyle by being a vegeterain (and probably an omnivore too) and if that suits your lifestyle, then great! As Westerners, we eat too much. Thats the main reason people who eat less and are more carefull about what they eat live longer. Vegetarians, as a whole, are more health conscious since the already made a very conscious desision about their eating habits. Most omnivores havent. But please, dont be so high and might about saving the lives of the little critters..... coz then your argument looses all respectability to me anyways....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allicat 0 #98 July 10, 2003 QuoteThey live YEARS longer (that says a lot!) ------------------------------------------------- Think about this for a second what percentage of vegitarians are women? I am not sure off hand but I believe the life expectency for women is at least 10 years more than men. Yes, the studies control for sex. Put more simply, female vegetarians live longer than female non-vegetarians. Male vegetarians live longer than male non-vegetarians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #99 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLast time I checked, plants are living creatures too...... ... Oh come on, not the plant argument! I guess I need to spell out I am talking about living things with CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEMS. so your importance to the 'life cycle' and your place in it is determined by your ability to experience pain? a bit unenlightened dont you think? life is life. somethings are nessesary. Unenlightened? I don't even know how to respond to that. All I am saying is that, no, watching a plant be dismembered does not hurt my feelings. Watching a person or animal be dismembered? Yes that hurts my feelings. Why? The former does not feel pain and suffering, the latter does. It's pretty simple. so your basing a scientific observation (killing animals is bad, but killing plants is ok) on an emotional response? enlightenment is recognizing that ALL life has value and that it is taken to benifit other lives as part of a continuing cycle. Respect for the sacrifice (unwilling in all cases) of another life (any life) is far more important than "feeling' good because carrots dont bleed...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #100 July 10, 2003 Quotebecause carrots dont bleed they do when you put them in the Juicer... lolRemster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
