PD 170 $

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Quick question... I have a PD 170, DOM 5/98 that came with my first rig I bought in October 2008. When I had it inspected the rigger commented "Main in great shape! No repairs needed." I think it had maybe 200 jumps on it and it has no rips/tears/patches, etc. I never jumped it once.

I want to sell it but I don't know what to ask for it.
Can anyone steer me in the right direction?

Thanks!!

Always be kinder than you feel.

[angryelf 0]

Your canopy is F111. 200 jumps is quite a few for it, or leaning towards the upper end at least. my first main was a a PD190. I think I sold it for $250. Even if it has been pampered, odds are good that the porosity of the the canopy has gotten to the point where a solid flare for landing may be iffy. Maybe you have a (lighter), newer (100 jumps) jumper who needs gear badly at your DZ, or maybe your DZ needs a model for students? If you sell on here ask $200-300 and work a deal with someone who just wants to get in the sky.
-Harry

"Sometimes you eat the bar,
and well-sometimes the bar eats you..."

[davelepka 4]

Just to be a little more specific, a PD 170 is probably only good for jumpers under 140-ish pounds. If you add 25lbs to get their exit weight, that would put them at 165lbs, and under 1 to 1 WL on the 170, which is where a newibe would need to be on that type of canopy.

Just for reference, PD only made that model down to a 150, and that was considered a HOT canopy that very people dared to jump. The design and material just don't lend themselves to loading of more that 1.1 to 1, and that's for 'experts'.

I'm sure someone out there has a 'story' about how the canopy is great and they jumped it at a higher WL, but that's just a story. A newer jumper, who was trained on modern student gear (Navigators and newer Mantas have Z-po top skin) will not be preparred for jumping an F-111 canopy at anything over 1 to 1.

Put it up for sale, but be sure the buyer knows exactly what they're getting. You might even provide a link to this thread in the idea of full disclosure. New jumpers have a way of being especially dumb and cheap when it comes to buying gear, and the idea of a 'fairly new' 170 for $200 or $300 would be right up their alley.

Back in the day, before the internet was huge and all-encompassing, you would always see one or two of the new guys from last season show up with rediculous gear they bought over the winter. Outdated, badly worn, improperly sized, round not square, etc, etc, and they were all 'shocked' when they weren't allowed to jump it.

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Thanks very much to both of you! I appreciate your knowledge and advice!!

Always be kinder than you feel.

[boyfalldown 0]

"Story" here

The PD 190 is a nice opening, mellow flying canopy with good (for f-111) landings when loaded at 1.1 or lower. While its no comparison to modern zp designs, it is still a proven, docile, good flying and landing canopy. My first hundred or so jumps were under a pd210 loaded at 1 to 1 and I put a few on 190's and 170's as well. To this day I wouldn't hesitate to jump one.

Evolution of canopy designs has certainly given us better landing, zippier, slower opening canopies. That doesn't change the fact that a pd9 cell is still a comfortable opening, docile flying, okay landing parachute WHEN FLOWN BELOW A 1.1 WINGLOADING, that should last for 500 or so jumps

200 jumps is low to mid time for that canopy. Fabric is usually worn out when the lines are. 500 jumps is a fair lifespan. $300 is a very fair price for a canopy with 300 GOOD jumps left in it. That canopy would be a good choice for a light newbie thats strapped for cash and trying to put together a new rig.

As to the comment about newbie jumpers training on Navigators and not being able to land a 9 cell f-111... most all of have an f-111 7-cell for a reserve, a few jumps on a pd-9 i(which has a better much flare than a 7-cell reserve) would be great experience to have before your first F-111 reserve ride. Heck the OP lists a pd-143 in her profile, It would do you a service to try the canopy before you get rid of it.


Jim

[faulknerwn 36]

I completely agree. I have a pd 150 loaded at 1.1. Probably has 400 or so jumps on it. I love the thing. In no wind sunset loads ts my favorite canopy when I'm tired cuz I can just look up and tell it to fly me home and it lands me in the peas. Has a great flare still - I can pop it up and get lift and it's so trivially simple to land I love it.

It does land different from zp but very much like a reserve. The only reason I don't jump it more is that I'm usually videoing a tandem or talking down an AFF and I'm trying to come down faster. But it's a beautiful flying canopy. It's my go to canopy when I am tired after a long day because it practically lands itself.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

"Story" here

There's always a 'story'. Even if there were 10 or 100 stories, you can't ignore the fact that F-111 main canopies are all but out-of-production, with the exception of a few 'specialty' canopies, and the VAST majority of sport jumpers choose a Z-po wing.

Take automobile transmissions, for example. The automatic tranmission is hugely popular, but the manual trans is still available in more than half of the cars in production. An auto is preferred by the majority of drivers, but the manual works the same and is a preference to enough to keep them in production.

F-111 is not the same. It's all but extinct, and all but extinct for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I know that you can jump for years with those canopies, and that many people did. I'm not the guy creating and shaping the sport canopy market, I'm just the guy pointing out the reality of the situation.

What I know for sure is that Z-po canopies have become almost omnipresent in both gear catalogs and on DZs everywhere. What I can't say for sure is why, but given that the canopy market is a 'free market', in that consumers choose what they want, and manufacturers respond by producing products that will sell, I think it's a safe assumption to make the Z-po is the fabric of choice because it's just better.

It's not less expensive, and it's harder to pack, but people seem to choose it to the extent that F-111 is all but gone from the sport canopy market (reserves excluded).