sports/dietary supplements?

[SpeedRacer 1]

Does anyone know of any good sports/dietary supplements? I'm finally getting off my lazy ass & getting back to the gym & doing a combination of weight machines followed by aerobic exercise. (yes, and I'm even cutting out drinking! temporarily, anyway.) My goal is to trim off a few pounds of fat & gain some muscle, so I'm not really using a scale, I'm just going by how much flab I've got around the midsection.

Does anyone know of any good dietary supplements that might help the process? Here's what I don't want : obviously, nothing with adrostenedione or other hormone-like substances. (I don't want to get big muscles in my arms by shrinking my most important muscle)

Also I don't want anything that has tons of caffeine. A little bit is fine, but some of the diet supplements I've seen have 200 or 350 mg of caffeine in them! F&*k that. I'd like something that will help me burn fat & provide some energy, but I don't want to become jittery.

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[darkvapor 0]

There is nothing effective out there. They are all gimmicks. Your best and safest bet is just to watch what you eat and get good levels of activity. Anytime you get into get-fixed-quick products, you are just asking for trouble. Some of them are even very dangerous. NONE of them are FDA approved. Even if they say they are, they are lying. If they have a statment such as "These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, and are not intented to treat, cure, or prevent any disease.. etc" then they have **zero** FDA approval. They use name games to make themselves sound legit.

If you do think something is promising. Do your research. I suggest http://www.quackwatch.org/. Don't trust most websites though, especially if they are not legitimate not-for-profit sites.

edited: dont take ANY stimulants. they aren't good, and without FDA regulation, they have even caused deaths in recent years (think "ephedra" products). Take the best approach and limit your intakes of fat and excess protein (which americans get wayyyy too much of, and it gets converted to fat). Carbohydrates are the body's first source of energy. Eat healty and excerise.. only method that is guaranteed to work ..

[SpeedRacer 1]

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NONE of them are FDA approved. Even if they say they are, they are lying. If they have a statment such as "These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, and are not intented to treat, cure, or prevent any disease.. etc" then they have **zero** FDA approval.

Well, they're not supposed to be. The FDA doesn't "approve" dietary supplements. If it did, they'd be actual medicines.

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[darkvapor 0]

Exactly.. but go to any of these supplement websites, and they have "FDA approved" written all over them. That is just a gimmick, since what you said is entirely accurate, FDA has no control over supplements.

[Blahr 0]

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There is nothing effective out there. They are all gimmicks.

While this may be true about some products, taken as a whole this statement is absurd.

I am a bodybuilder and I use several VERY common and very effective products. No, not anabolic steroids :-)

I use Creatine. This is widely recognised as being VERY effective for years, This is backed up by my own personal experiece as well. Its also been thoroughly tested by the FDA and classified as a food product.

I also use several non-essential amino acids such as Glutamine and Argenine. These are also quite safe
and quite effective.

As darkvapor implied, there is no substitute for hard work and good nutrition. They are the cornerstone of my physical program, however there ARE in fact several very good, very safe, very effective products out there.

What you should be using depends on the results you are trying to achieve.

In point of fact, protien doesnt make you fat. Carbs do.

[SpeedRacer 1]

You are no doubt right that there's a lot of bullshit supplements out there.

However, you can't use it as proof that all dietary supplements are BS just because the FDA doesn't approve them. That's the wrong yardstick. The FDA is not in the business of approving dietary supplements.

So if for example, someone were to sell say, an herbal tea that actually did help weight loss (or whatever), the FDA still wouldn't approve it, because its a dietary supplement and not a drug.

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[LouDiamond 1]

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There is nothing effective out there. They are all gimmicks.

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While this may be true about some products, taken as a whole this statement is absurd.

I second that and all of what Blahr has already said. Personally, i think Creatine is one of the best things out there for actually doign what it claims to do. Of course you need to drink plenty of water but that goes with exercising in general. Your results may vary from others but overall most supplements do prove effective( recognizing that some don't do squat as well)

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[darkvapor 0]

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I use Creatine. This is widely recognised as being VERY effective for years

Yes. I am not going to argue with you there. There is some science behind creatine. I did not mention it in my blanket statement about ineffective supplements, because, honestly, creatine is one of the few products that works. one of a VERY VERY VERY FEW! It is safer to say that none of them work, then to say that most or even some (more than 20%) of them work. However, creatine is not for everyone. Creatine is not an endurance enhancer, and only is very beneficial to people who have repeated bouts of high intensity excercise. Football players, weight lifters, etc.

I will contest that statement about protein supplementation. It is pretty much useless. Americans get excessive amounts of proteins. Are proteins necessary? Oh yea.. but the daily recommended is much less than even light meaters get. Your body makes all the non-essential proteins it needs. If you are an extremely aggressive competitor or weight lifter, than yes.. maybe a bit of protein supplementation will help. But probably only if you spend 6 hours a day in the gym and another 4 hours in physical activity. Not if you just go to the gym 5-6 hours a week. Excess proteins are just stored as fat, so you do get bulk that many body builders like. I put on 20 lbs when I did the protein supplementation thing. A good bit of muscle, but also a good bit of fat from all that protein supplementation I was getting. 99.9% of the muscle I gained was from working out, not any supplements.

edited: sorry.. i used proteins and amino acids interchangibly in that last post... i know the difference, but honestly, in the end it doesnt matter..

[SpeedRacer 1]

Actually, the very website that darkvapor indicated has an article about creating saying that it is in fact effective.

But personally, I'm not trying to become a bodybuilder. I just wanna get a little more fit. Add a little muscle, & trim off the spare tire. I don't have a lot of fat to lose, just a few pounds of it probably. So yes, I'm doing all the right things: controlling portion size, doing both resistance and aerobic exercise, etc. Also I'm (temporarily) cutting out beer, which was probably the main cause of the spare tire to begin with, given how much of it I consume.

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[indyz 1]

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Its also been thoroughly tested by the FDA and classified as a food product.

It is important to remember that this classification does not mean that Creatine is safe or effective, it simply means that because of it's ingredients, it does not fall under the same regulatory rules as drugs. Ephedrine is another dietary supplement that is/was classified as a food product, and has been proven to be dangerous.

[Blahr 0]

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I use Creatine. This is widely recognised as being VERY effective for years

I will contest that statement about protein supplementation.

It sounds like you are believeing that because you had undesirtable results that you believe everyone would.

I consume 220 grams of protien per day. I do not get fat from it and I dont spend 6 hours per day in the gym. I spend approximately 1 hour 5 days a week lifting and 1 hour 7 days per week on cardio.

If I consume less than 220 grams of protien per day I do not get optimal results and I am NOT one of those mass monsters like Mr. Olympia. I'm 5' 11" and 210 lbs.

You shouldnt assume that your own experience is the same as everyone will have. Different metabolisms, different levels of activity, require different nutritional needs.

[darkvapor 0]

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In point of fact, protien doesnt make you fat. Carbs do.

Body's consumption of enegry is done in 3 steps. First: carbohydrates are used for energy. American's get so much of it, the body uses a lot, but the rest is fat. Second: the body uses fat stores. Since we get too many carbs, these are rarely depleted. Third: a last resort, your body starts using proteins.

Your body uses all 3 of these energy stores throughout the day, but that is the order of preference. If you take in 100 grams of protein a day, guess what.. you are probably gonna put 95 of those into stored energy in the body.. in the form of fat...

proteins only provide 4 calories of energy per gram... the body doesn't want to use ineffecient energy sources if it doesnt have to. by comparison fat has 9 cal/gram. carbos also have 4cal/g, but it is more easily converted to energy

[darkvapor 0]

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the very website that darkvapor indicated has an article about creating saying that it is in fact effective.

Yes. As I just stated earlier, creatine is one of the few that is. but it is a rarity.. it really is.. I did not mention it because we are not talking about performance enhancers.

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Also I'm (temporarily) cutting out beer, which was probably the main cause of the spare tire to begin with, given how much of it I consume.

FYI: alcohol has 11 cal/g of energy.. thats more than fat... its easy to see why alchohol doesn't help keep that gut down.. ;)

[Blahr 0]

I'm not advocating the use of protien as an energy source.
Thats what carbs are for.
Its for building and repairing muscle and other body tissues. If you work out strenuously, you require far more protien than a person with a sedentary lifestyle

[SpeedRacer 1]

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If you take in 100 grams of protein a day, guess what.. you are probably gonna put 95 of those into stored energy in the body.. in the form of fat...

um, that would mean that an adult would get by on only 5 gm of protein per day, which is way below the MDA!!

actually, I've heard that for an active adult, about half a gram of protein per pound of body weight is about right, a bit more for bodybuilders or certain other athletes.

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[darkvapor 0]

First of all. That is pretty amazing.

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The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) of protein according to U.S. government standards is 0.8 gram per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of ideal body weight for the adult. This translates into 0.36 grams per pound of body weight per day.

Most people don't need even 75 grams a day of protein. You might be an exception, there always are. I know I am making blanket statements, but if I tried to cite every exception, I would never make my point.

Am I basing it on my own experiences? Not really.. I am trying to base it on my limited knowledge of the human body and how it functions. I just used my example as an isolated incident. Unfortunately, I didn't know enough about how the body functioned when I took an extra 50 g's a day of protein in addition to my regular (large) supply of meat products.

[Blahr 0]

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actually, I've heard that for an active adult, about half a gram of protein per pound of body weight is about right, a bit more for bodybuilders or certain other athletes.

I believe the norm is somewhere around 40-50 grams per day for your average person

Bodybuilders recommend around 1 gram per pound of lean body mass.

If 100 grams made you fat I'd be as big as a house since I consume no less than 220 grams per day.

[darkvapor 0]

Hehe.. yea.. your right. the numbers that i used in that post arent accurate, and conflicting with what i just posted 30 seconds ago. however, my point is the same. americans have too much protein intake, most of which is completely unnecessary and will be converted to fat.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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You might be an exception, there always are. I know I am making blanket statements, but if I tried to cite every exception, I would never make my point.

Ok, blanket statements aside, does anyone else know of any supplements that helped them?

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[darkvapor 0]

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Its for building and repairing muscle and other body tissues. If you work out strenuously, you require far more protien than a person with a sedentary lifestyle

That statement is very true. I think 220g/day is very very large intake of protein. There are a lot of factors involved... age.. body composition.. gender.. lifestyle.. (those other two big energy sources, carbs, fats)... and even how well people break down and use proteins. You are not the norm when it comes to protein intake and physical activity. If your average 40 year old Joe takes in 220g/day, along with his regular excessive intakes of fat and carbs, then he will be a house.. ;)

edited to add some support to my claim:

from the website i posted earlier.

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Moreover, taking a supplement to get 23 individual amino acids would be foolish because these are present in adequate amounts in the diet of everyone who eats foods that contain protein -- and most Americans already consume more protein than they need in their diet.

[AggieDave 6]

EAS makes GREAT stuff.

The primary thing you need is to get your diet right. A proper diet will go MUCH MUCH farther then any suppliment out there. Now, if you want to suppliment with protein, use Designer Protein. For Creatine go with EAS Phosphogane.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SpeedRacer 1]

yep, already working on the diet thing. And cutting out the beer. And doing the exercise program.

but like I said, I just wanna
1) (first priority, for now) lose a little fat around my waist, and 2) build some muscle, but I'm not planning to become an all-out body-builder. So I'll probably skip the protein powder for now, and the creatine.

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[Blahr 0]

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yep, already working on the diet thing. And cutting out the beer. And doing the exercise program.

but like I said, I just wanna
1) (first priority, for now) lose a little fat around my waist, and 2) build some muscle, but I'm not planning to become an all-out body-builder. So I'll probably skip the protein powder for now, and the creatine.

If your main goal is to loose a little fat , cardio cardio cardio :-) Exercize is far better than fat burning products. The CAN help but I know some jokers that just take ephedra prods all day, eat like assholes, and wonder why they arent losing weight.
Treadmill, stepper, running, walking briskly, bycycling, swimming.
Any of the above will get you the results you want as long as you reduce your caloric intake.

Beer is CARBS :-)

KEY: To loose fat, you must use more calories per day than you consume.
If you dont want to cut down on the intake, you must increase the burn rate.

Creatine rocks :-) I maxxed my bench at 345 lbs last week. For a 210 lb guy thats not too shabby :-)

[AggieDave 6]

That's the kicker! As long as you're working out atleast 3 days a week, including cardio and weight training, you need to consume atleast 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight.

If you'd like a good resource that really breaks it down and gives you great workouts to try, go get "Body For Life." Its not some bullshit fad diet that leaves you worst off (like the Adkins diet, Jared Subway diet, or any of those worthless fads), it gives you the knowledge you need to create a diet that is healthy and balanced as well as the tools you need to design a workout that is right for you so you can get into shape (not necissarily "bulk up").


3 weeks ago I started easing back into my workout routine and I'm now slowly getting my diet back on track. I'm resisting the urge to jump in with both feet, since I know I'll loose focus and fall off of it if I do that...Proper diet and proper workout routines is something I know very well, I was very dedicated and ended up being in very good shape and very well built a couple of years ago. Although I slipped away from lifting, working out and eating right over the past year and a half, so I have wasted away to an overweight person. Now I'm back on the right track and am feeling the best I've felt in the past couple of years.

Not only that, but my muscles are responding very very well and are starting to regain the size I once had (as well as the strength). That really makes me happy.


Although I don't use the "Body For Life" book (I already have that knowledge), I believe in it enough to recommend it highly to anyone interested, I even bought it for my mother, who is starting to use it (and doing quite well with it).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."