Purchasing gear piece at a time?

[KevinP 0]

Hi all,

I imagine you all get tired of reading gear questions. I'm a noob and I get tired of reading some of them, but I have a bit of a different angle that may warrant at least a cursory view.

I weight ~200 in, say, work-out sweats. That being said, I am fairly certain that, when I look into getting a rig, it'll be a Wings container and will have a PD Optimum 235 reserve and a 230 sq ft main (most likely a Pulse, but time will tell). Right now, Wings is offering a killer discount for military for the foreseeable future. Is there anything I am not thinking about when I consider buying the container soon, then the reserve in a couple of months, then the main after I get my license and demo jump a couple of canopies?

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[NWFlyer 2]

There will always be a "good deal" available, especially with Wings and the military discount. Buying gear now, especially brand new, is a bad idea. You have one jump. Wait till you've got a few more jumps under your belt to make sure this is something you want to stick with. At that time you'll have built up relationships with local instructors, riggers, and maybe even a gear dealer depending on where you jump. Those folks will be able to sit down with you and give you advice about the right thing to buy/not to buy based on your individual goals and skills.

Don't rush. I know you're excited, but after 1 jump is NOT the time to buy no matter how good the deal seems. (That said, in general there's nothing wrong with piecing gear together a piece at a time - it can often get you the best deal - but I'd still recommend that you wait for a while before buying).

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[jrmrangers 0]

Deffinately talk to your rigger, ordering the proper size container will mean you can get much more longevity out of the container.(sizing for the future) IM a total nnob but i actually recently had this conversation with my rigger. Also your going to get a ton of people telling you to just by used. Good luck and Blue Skies!!

Wait , I pull what first?

[KevinP 0]

Thanks. I get the feeling there is more to this gear thing than I realize. It would be about a month before I started getting serious, but your advice is appreciated.

This is one of those things that I feel I don't know enough to know what I don't know. I jumped 18 times back in the very late 80's with the Army. 800' static-line with a T10B. We surely didn't PICK our gear. It was issued. Maybe that's the mindset I need to shake. I suppose there may be more worth to it being MY gear than I give credit. Honestly, I have just approached it from the view of who cares about all these intricacies as long as it is relatively comfortable and keeps me from burning in. I have some mental work to do yet. But, I really, really like what I have read about the Pulse. :)

Again, I sincerely appreciate your time and input.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[davelepka 4]

You need to get closer to your license before you worry too much about gear. Your instructors will start you on a very large canopy, and work you down though what they have available as your skills dictate. By the time you're close to a licesne, you'll have a better idea of your skills and preferences, and can go from there.

In terms of gear, used is generally the way to go for a first rig. Even after you get your license, you'll still be on the steep part of the learning curve, and there's a good chance that your needs (or wants) will change within the first year. If you buy new for your first rig, you'll lose thousands of dollars on resale if you do want to switch rigs. If you buy used, you can expect to get 90% of your money back after a year and 100-ish jumps.

Try to avoid the urge to buy anything until you're further along in your training. The DZ will provide you with everything you need for all of your training jumps, so use their stuff and learn all that you can before getting out your wallet. Even then, consult with your instructors about things like helmets, altimeters, and jumpsuits. Don't make the classic mistake of thinking that farting around on the internet is 'research', and show up to the DZ will all of your own stuff.

Making actual jumps is research, and you'll learn more about what works for you by doing that then reading some shit on the internet.

[DocPop 1]

The main point is that the rate at which you replace your gear is never faster than when you are a new jumper.

As you get more experience over the first few hundred jumps you may want different things out of your canopies and/or container and you will almost certainly want to downsize from your first canopy.

This means that investing in new equipment (with the exception of an AAD which you can keep for life) is a very expensive way to get into the sport. Better to wait until you have found out more or less the gear you want long term before coughing up the cash for new gear.

In my own case, my first rig was a second hand Javelin, with a reserve and an AAD. I bought a new Sabre2 150 because it was easier and quicker than trying to snag a used one as they sold so quickly. Through jumping that gear I found out that my interests lie in learning to freefly and to swoop.

Last season I bought a new Infinity sized for up to a 135 main and an Optimum 143. I never expect to want to jump a smaller reserve and my next main will probably be either a 9-cell 120 or a 107 (either of which should fit) and then (in 500 or so more jumps) I'll go to a smaller crossbraced canopy which again will fit in this container. In other words, the container I now have will be with me for as long as I am jumping.

As you rightly said, this early in your jumping career you really don't know what you want/need. By all means think about a Pulse, but by demoing other "intermediate" canopies you may find a canopy whose characteristics you like even more.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[KevinP 0]

Good advice. I have to admit. Yet another mental thing to shake, I suppose. I have never really been a "buy used" kinda guy. If what I wanted was available new, I bought it new. Point in case was my first motorcycle. Everyone was telling me to buy used because "you will drop it." Well, I never did and put right at 6K miles on it, some hard at that. I suppose I look at skydiving gear in a similar way to how I look at any used thing. Some people use, some people abuse. I have purchased several used (because they are no longer produced) Toyota MR2s. I have one that was in awesome shape. Bought it ten years ago and it has been awesome because it was well maintained. On the other hand, I bought one that quickly became a money pit because the kid I bought it from abused the car. If a car breaks, I have to get a ride home. If skydiving gear breaks, I'm waiting for Jesus to explain how I got to meet him in person earlier than expected. I guess that's where a good working relationship with a rigger comes in, huh?

Well, it flies in the face of everything I am about, but I'll formally, and immediately, put down the idea of buying anything new and untried until one year after the issuance of my A License. I think that sounds fair. Finding used rigs with 230 sq ft canopies will be interesting.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[davelepka 4]

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I suppose I look at skydiving gear in a similar way to how I look at any used thing. Some people use, some people abuse.

While this is true, skydivign gear is different than a car. For starters, the harness/container and reserve are inspected every 6 months during the reserve repack. If the rig is not airworthy, the rig is not packed, and cannot be (legally) jumped in the US.

Along those same lines, before buying any used gear you want have it inspected by a local rigger. Another way that rigs are not like cars, an inspection is a complete inspection on a rig, meaning that every seam, stich, and component are checked, as opposed to a car where the internals of the engine/trans are typically not removed and inspected.

Besides, how many jumps do you think were on the military gear you were issued before it was 'yours'? How about the student gear you'll be jumping at the DZ, do you think they buy a fresh rig for every student?

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Finding used rigs with 230 sq ft canopies will be interesting.

Again, you may or may not be looking for a 230. By the time you are ready to buy, you'll have a couple dozen jumps on a variety of student rigs, and you'll know 100x more than you do now.

Beyond that, buying used does not mean buying a complete rig. You'll have an easier time buying used gear one component at a time as opposed to waiting for the 'perfect' complete rig to come up for sale. Again, you'll need the assitance of a rigger to help pick out the parts, and make sure they are appropriate and airworthy, but you're going to need a rigger anyway if you're going to own a rig. You cannot do most maintenance on a rig yourself, and you cannot do reserve repacks yourself, so it becomes a good chance for you to develop a relationship with a local rigger. In fact, many of them will help you out for free provided that you use them for your rigging needs ongoing.

[KevinP 0]

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Again, you may or may not be looking for a 230.

I don't know why I haven't realized that before now. Well, besides a staggering degree of inexperience on the matter. LOL Good point. I guess the advice to "relax" transcends even into buying gear. Thanks!

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In fact, many of them will help you out for free provided that you use them for your rigging needs ongoing.

Kinda like having a consistent mechanic, I suppose. A good working relationship with one to do those jobs I can't is invaluable. I see your point and appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[NWFlyer 2]

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Well, it flies in the face of everything I am about, but I'll formally, and immediately, put down the idea of buying anything new and untried until one year after the issuance of my A License. I think that sounds fair. Finding used rigs with 230 sq ft canopies will be interesting.

They're out there (though if you still have your heart set on a Pulse when you're ready to buy, that might be one that's very difficult to find - because the canopy is so new, there aren't many on the used market yet). However, finding a used container to take a 230 shouldn't be a problem (especially if it's a Pulse - a container that will fit any other 210 will fit a Pulse 230 since it packs smaller).

It's possible you'll keep your first set of gear for a while; it's also very possible that you'll want to downsize and will want to sell it fairly quickly. Just means you're the one taking the hit on the initial depreciation. Used gear bought at a fair price can often be sold for not much less than you paid for it; new gear, though, will take a definite hit when you go to sell it.

The used market in the sport is very strong, and with proper inspection by a trusted rigger, you can have as much confidence in used gear as new gear. Certain things (like jumpsuits) can make more sense to buy new because the fit to your body is very important. Containers, though, can be bought used and still fit well enough to be safe.

Just to use me as an example, throughout my career here's what I've bought used (still have it all unless otherwise noted): first container (which I still jump - I haven't downsized much), first reserve (same - still have it), two Altimaster Galaxy altimeters, two Altitrack altimeters (have one, sold one to a friend), a Protrack (still have it), a Prodytter (dropped it somewhere in the landing area at Perris ), a Spectre 230 main (sold for $50 less than I paid for it, after I did 200 jumps), a Pilot 210 main (sold for $100 less than I paid for the canopy and the new lineset I put on it, after I did 300 jumps on it).

What I've bought new: 4 RW jumpsuits to support various speeds/types of flying/wingloadings (one was a gift from a jumpsuit mfgr in exchange for helping her out with a fundraiser boogie), 1 pair freefly pants (sold because I lowered my wingloading and they got stupid-baggy), a Bonehead Guner open face helmet, a FreeZR2 full face helmet, one Vigil 1 at full retail price (it took a salt water bath), one Vigil 1 at cost (thanks to Vigil for the deal after the salt water bath on the other one), one Altimaster Galaxy (also took the same salt water bath and fried itself), a Pulse 210 main, several pairs of gloves and goggles.

This of course doesn't include various batteries and replacement parts here and there, but gives you an idea that it doesn't have to be "new OR used" - it can very much be new AND used. I coveted an Altitrack for years but couldn't bring myself to pay full price for something that wasn't strictly necessary (but was damned cool). I kept an eye on the used market and finally lucked into a sweet deal.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[KevinP 0]

Holy smokes that's a lot of stuff!

Sincerely,
Kevin

[NWFlyer 2]

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Holy smokes that's a lot of stuff!

I'm not even close to a gear whore. If my SO listed all the stuff he has (same amount of time in the sport) your head would spin. And there are lots of people who have way more than he does...

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[monkycndo 0]

Ok, I'll bite and give a short list of what a self acknowledged gear whore can accumulate. Some bought new, some used, some bartered for, some just given to me for free. Started on a 170 main(which I still have), regularly jump my 150s and 135s. Other than helmet and protrack, all my first gear in each category was bought used.

Out of all the gear listed, I have sold a total of one canopy, 1 helmet and 1 wingsuit.

8 jump suits
7 helmets
4 reserves
9 mains
5 containers
3 aads(one timed out)
8 altimeters/audibles(one lost in freefall)
8 wingsuits
And a bunch of cameras


I'm sure I've forgotten something.


Yes, I like gear.

The only items I suggest on buying new, Protec helmet and goggles. Always nice to have a helmet that fits and hasn't been sweated in by 300 previous students. Goggles without scratches are nice since you can actually see through them. Total cost of about $60. Once you are off AFF, I'd pick up a used altimeter. I'd rather pay for that up front instead of renting. My favorite is the Alti2 Galaxy. As a new jumper, your landings are often not stellar, so your container and jumpsuit will take some abuse. A Protec helmet that actually provides some real protection is a good thing.

Once you are regularly landing on your feet, then you can think about going all matchy matchy with new gear and not get it dirty.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I have only 4 years in the sport:

In my back room I have:

•6 harness/containers (3 airworthy, 2 for practice packing reserves, 1 damaged and now in pieces)
•4 mains (1 Spectre, 2 Lightnings, & a Challenger)
•6 reserve canopies  (4 airworthy, 2 for practice packing reserves)
•4 Altimeters: Galaxy, ProTrack, N3, N3Audio
•2 helmets
•4 jumpsuits
•2 AADs (1 current, 1 paperweight)
•2 1/2 pairs of gloves
•3 logbooks
•2 flags and their deployment systems. 
• 1 strobe light & a handful of chem lights. 
• odds and ends of pilot chutes, bridles, and who knows what else. 

I plan to buy one or two more AADs this Spring. 

And that doesn't even begin to touch my rigging gear!

My suggestions:

•Buy nothing now. 
•Buy used rig at first. 
•Buy your rigger beer now and monthly for a while. 
•Do NOT steal your rigger's girlfriend.
•Smile, breathe, relax.

Blue skies

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[monkycndo 0]

Agreed, never steal a rigger's girlfriend. But you can risk borrowing her every once in a while.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[KevinP 0]

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•2 1/2 pairs of gloves


•Buy your rigger beer now and monthly for a while. 
•Do NOT steal your rigger's girlfriend.
•Smile, breathe, relax.

Blue skies

Okay, I gotta ask, how did you wind up with 2 1/2 pair?? LOL

At what point do you start buying beer? I mean, I'll be on student status the rest of the time I'm here in Arizona. Should I take some up for Sam tomorrow?? HMM? Oh, and what kind? I drink a beer once ever couple of weeks or so and I prefer Guinness, but I'm not buying it in bulk to encourage a relationship.

As for girlfriends, I have been happily married for 23 years, so that is the LAST thing anyone has to worry about.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[labrys 0]

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Okay, I gotta ask, how did you wind up with 2 1/2 pair??

Probably the same way many of us end up with a 1/2 pair of shoes.

Owned by Remi #?

[NWFlyer 2]

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Okay, I gotta ask, how did you wind up with 2 1/2 pair??

Probably the same way many of us end up with a 1/2 pair of shoes.

Sometimes the errant half finds its way back to you. Left one of my (very overpriced expensive) ice climbing gloves (my winter gloves of choice) at Skydive Atlanta a couple years ago. Didn't discover it till I dug into my gearbag the next time I jumped a month later (and after I was back home on the other coast). I had visions of a glove that had been sitting out in the landing area for a month (in winter), but I asked a friend to check and it was right where I'd (apparently) left it - sitting on a table in the hangar. Guess when you just lose one people aren't that interested in "finding" them.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

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Okay, I gotta ask, how did you wind up with 2 1/2 pair??

Probably the same way many of us end up with a 1/2 pair of shoes.

CReW dogs have unique ways to lose shoes. How often do they wear matching ones on a CReW jump?

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!