High speed Mal EP

[RichyR 0]

I've just been reading Parachuting: The Sky Diver's Handbook, and it mentions that following deployment of the PC, by the time you've finished your count if you don't feel the tug of the parachute you should be into your EP.

Taken literally, is this a valid course of action, without assessing the deployment or type of Mal. I'm not sure I'm able to see the deployment clearly from belly down in arch, and there's the potential to become unstable if I tried to twist myself around to see clearly, not to mention time factor.

It seems a very neat, fast EP, however obviously it would require cut away before pulling the reserve every time, where in some cases a cut-away wouldn't be necessary e.g. total mal.

Doe's anyone see any problems with this?



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[mcordell 2]

I do. If you are jumping a throw out pc system and you deploy the pc and don't feel a tug of the main extracting from the d-bag, looking over your shoulder to determine if you have a PC in tow is not a bad thing. In fact in the days of spring loaded PCs looing over your shoulder was a standard way of clearing a hesitating pc from your burble. While a throw out shouldn't be flopping around in the burble, it is possible and looking over your shoulder spills air into that area and may allow for the PC to catch air and function.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[councilman24 36]

Go read the Racer thread at the top of the incident forum. There you'll find someone who cutaway from a PC in tow and ended up in a situation that could/should have been fatal. The rig manufacturer is telling him he didn't follow the manual. Which is true. But it's the only rig I know where if you follow one of USPA's recommended EP's (which the company owner neatly left out of one of his replies) you are not following the owner's manual and you may die.

Aside from the Racer thing. Cutting away from every malfunction whether you need to or not leaves you with fewer options and may cause other issues. You should LOOK and see what the issue is. It's a shame to use your LAST CHANCE TO LIVE if you don't have to. Remember reserves malfunction too.

I had a PC in tow at low altitude (for various reasons) If I had taken the short time needed to pull the cutaway I would have bounced.

I don't know anyone who will tell you not looking to see what's going on is a good thing. Cutting away from a total or PC in tow is a personal choice. I prefer not to waste the time. Others believe it's better. The direction you were quoting is often given to students for a couple of reasons. It makes training simpler, students may not be able to look and recognize PC in tow on early jumps just from sensory overload, if some cases student gear is SOS (single operation system) where cutaway handle and reserve ripcord are one handle. But for jumpers transitioning to there own gear and learning freefall skills looking and reacting should be an issue.

There is a dual square report on the PIA website, probably PD's website and if you search here I'm sure you'll find a ling to it.

Also read your manual. If you don't have one it's available online, even for older or orphan gear.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mcordell 2]

I had a pc in tow during student status. It was my fault but when I looked over my shoulder and saw the pc inflated at full bridle extension I knew it was time to quit waiting...it wasn't coming out. I didn't pull the cutaway and went straight to the reserve. At the time the EPs we learned at that DZ included pulling cutaway without respect to which malfunction you had. I went straight to the reserve handle but I think it's because logically there was nothing to chop. I can't say for sure...I just did it. it worked out just fine for me and I landed trailing my pc. pulling the cutaway wouldn't have helped or hurt in my situation but it would have added time for sure.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[Baksteen 84]

councilman24

Aside from the Racer thing. Cutting away from every malfunction whether you need to or not leaves you with fewer options and may cause other issues. You should LOOK and see what the issue is. It's a shame to use your LAST CHANCE TO LIVE if you don't have to. Remember reserves malfunction too.

I respect you and the quality of your posts, but it so happens that the "last chance to live"-comment is one of my pet peeves.
Most especially when it's used to someone with few jumps.
In the case of students, we do not want them to worry/analyse whether cutting away a malfunction would be a good idea -we want them to ACT. Yes, reserves can malfunction, but I trust my rigger's repacking skills more than my own ability to perform some high speed in-flight rigging.
Once on the ground we can discuss grey areas - or colours. Polka dots, even. But in the air there is only black and white.

It may be a shame to use your last chance to live when not absolutely necessary.. but is is most definitely a shame NOT to have used your last chance to live when it turns out at 350 ft that it was absolutely necessary after all.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[RichyR 0]

Thanks everyone for the time taken to reply.

As with quite a few things, it seems answers are not that clear cut, and it's best to weigh up the options beforehand, pick a method and stick with it.

What I find interesting about this sport is the variety of opinion and teaching. Eg. I know some DZs teach two handed cutaway and reserve pulls, and others one handed. Some teach cutaway for every mal, others only for stuff out etc.

For a newbie, I think it's a balance simplifying procedures with perhaps the slight increase of further complications, versus a more flexible assessment at the time, but with the risk of burning altitude / inaction.

[councilman24 36]

I don't disagree with you. And I never tell a newbie they did the wrong thing in using their reserve. But for more experienced jumpers I might point out alternatives. And it is your last chance to live.

In the old days some people thought to was cool to have reserves and mains the same color. In fact just a year or two ago a demo jumper said that he did so.the show would go on. The problem? If you suddenly have a canopy open during freefall and it blows up you would normally cut away and pull your reserve. But if.it was your reserve and you didn't recognize it you just disconnected your last good canopy, the main. I want people to act, I want people.to make all the decisions they can on the ground they can (like whether they are going to cut away from a PC in tow) and then just implement them in the air. But using your reserve because your steering.line broke on a lightly loaded spectre is not a good decision. Yes jumpers shouldn't hesitate to use their reserve, especially students. And fighting with a malfunction too long might be going away because of the violence of some of the malfunctions these days. But as a jumper gains experience they need to recognize their limited resources (two canopies) and the features of each.

Perhaps having had a reserve total for 1400' and having found a possible reserve total in a rig design ( search quasar pilot chute on youtube, my basement) has colored my view. The idea of "just pull silver" ( I hate that phrase) and everything will be alright is the wrong attitude. I don't want people to do high speed rigging either. But I do have a strong view that cutting away from a PC in tow is eliminating resources, but mainly wasting time. I've investigated deaths were the only handle that would have saved their life wasn't pulled.

I trust my rigger too, sort of. I know him pretty well. The last time someone else packed my reserve was 1983.

A friend just told me the other night that if he is going to crash in an airplane he's going to pull all his handles just because he doesn't want to ever die without pulling them all.

I've also gotten used to using the last chance to live phrase with my pilot customers to tryto keep them from treating their parachute like a seat cushion.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[ps5601 0]

Richy - if you profile is correct, and you have only 12 jumps then please, please ignore all comments and advice given on here and TALK TO YOUR INSTRUCTOR.

In time you will learn that there is not a one size fits all solution, different people in different countries have different ways of doing things and you will learn what works best for you.

However, at your current experience level your best chances will come from following your training as given to you by your instructors.

Paul