Death of marriage in Scandinavia!

[fudd 0]

I'll admit it. I live in a terrible place...
The moral decay in society over here is killing us. We actually accept gay people and womens right to work. This is just horrible. Where will it end?
No wonder fundementalists are afraid!

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/03/10/death_of_marriage_in_scandinavia/

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Guest]

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I'll admit it. I live in a terrible place...
The moral decay in society over here is killing us. We actually accept gay people and womens right to work. This is just horrible. Where will it end?
No wonder fundementalists are afraid!

Shortened Clicky

From the article link:

By getting Americans used to a strong separation between marriage and parenthood, gay marriage would draw out these trends and put us firmly on the path to the Scandinavian system. And unlike Scandinavia, America has an underclass, whose families would suffer greatly from a further separation between marriage and parenthood.

The core issue before the constitutional convention is the fate of the institution of marriage. Few of us want to return to the 1950s in the matter of homosexuality. Yet many of us also worry about the effects on the institution of marriage of so profound a change. The Scandinavian example shows that there are valid -- and secular -- reasons to believe that same-sex marriage will undercut marriage itself." (my emphasis)

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I don't know if it's possible to draw direct parallels from the observation of Scandanavian society; yet, general trends can be seen.

If civilization is a cycle, we're seeing the acceleration of the decline side.

Eventually, society itself will collapse. This is the inevitable outcome of society's path.

So, if social decay and societal collapse into anarchy are a fire now beginning to get out of control, homosexual "marriage" is gasoline.

I would remind people when you watch the anarchy that will take place before your open eyes one day IN YOUR LIFETIME, that you remember that your eyes were once shut.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[JJohnson 0]

Isn't it legal to marry a moose or reindeer in Norway as well?

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[jerm 0]

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inevitable outcome of society's path.

So, if social decay and societal collapse into anarchy are a fire now beginning to get out of control, homosexual "marriage" is gasoline.

gee, and i always thought it was rampant bigotry, hatred, division of the classes and oppression of the masses that would collapse our society. apparently none of that is valid and it's all about the mixing of genitals in a married pair.

Funny, the only i way I can see that contributing to an anarchic collapse is by a bunch of closed-minded morons judging then and causing tension and hatred.

For all the bible bangers out there fuming about homosexuals.. what even happened to letting god be the judge? and love thy neigbor?

i guess those rules only apply to people who do things that YOU like and pray to YOUR god. is that how it works?

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[billvon 2,473]

>Eventually, society itself will collapse.

Yep. First men stopped wearing wigs and pantyhose, then they let women vote, then they let black men marry white women. Then there was rock and roll, cats and dogs, living together in sin . . .

The collapse of society due to the latest social evil has been predicted in pretty much every decade since the country was founded. After, say, the first dozen times, it became clear that society changes and adapts to the times. Rock and roll did not destroy our society, nor did interracial marraiges, school integration, or rap. Neither will this.

[gary350 0]

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inevitable outcome of society's path.

So, if social decay and societal collapse into anarchy are a fire now beginning to get out of control, homosexual "marriage" is gasoline.

gee, and i always thought it was rampant bigotry, hatred, division of the classes and oppression of the masses that would collapse our society. apparently none of that is valid and it's all about the mixing of genitals in a married pair.

Funny, the only i way I can see that contributing to an anarchic collapse is by a bunch of closed-minded morons judging then and causing tension and hatred.

For all the bible bangers out there fuming about homosexuals.. what even happened to letting god be the judge? and love thy neigbor?

i guess those rules only apply to people who do things that YOU like and pray to YOUR god. is that how it works?

>So, if social decay and societal collapse into anarchy are a fire now beginning to get out of control, homosexual "marriage" is gasoline.

So I read this and am counting to 10 or maybe 100, trying to think of how to reply to such drivel, such a moronic crock of shit without a personal attack. . . So I read the next reply. Outstanding, jerm - beautifully put - thanks.

[Guest]

The original op-ed piece was from the Boston Globe, hardly a bastion of bible-thumping.

Unlike you, I'm merely commenting, not passing judgement. Please note my bold emphasis on "the secular" in the transcript.

It's my opinon that society will collapse into anarchy in our lifetimes, but although you don't share my view, please remember that if it does come to pass, it won't be conservatism that causes it, because conservatism won't be around to blame by that point.

Love your sig line, BTW - good one.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

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>Eventually, society itself will collapse.

Yep. First men stopped wearing wigs and pantyhose, then they let women vote, then they let black men marry white women. Then there was rock and roll, cats and dogs, living together in sin . . .

The collapse of society due to the latest social evil has been predicted in pretty much every decade since the country was founded. After, say, the first dozen times, it became clear that society changes and adapts to the times. Rock and roll did not destroy our society, nor did interracial marraiges, school integration, or rap. Neither will this.

They can certainly influence for the worse. Rap is an example.

Can anyone disagree that our society has become meaner and more foul and less civil as a result of the infusion of ghetto culture into society at large?

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[narcimund 0]

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Can anyone disagree that our society has become meaner and more foul and less civil as a result of the infusion of ghetto culture into society at large?

I refuse to agree or disagree from principle. I don't know enough about "society" in general and I suspect you don't either. Generally I assume any individual claiming to see a long-term, wide-spread social shift from their private little vantage point is overreaching their evidence.

That being said, I will commit the same error: I believe American society is generally inclined to needless fear and panic and self-importance. Everyone wants their opinion to be the only key to survival of the species. Not everything we believe actually matters in the end.

People don't understand the difference between "I believe something but it's not an important belief" and "my position is CRITICALLY important!!!"

For instance, I believe yellow is a better color for emergency vehicles than red, but I wouldn't suggest a constitutional amendment about it.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[jumperconway 0]

They can certainly influence for the worse. Rap is an example.

Can anyone disagree that our society has become meaner and more foul and less civil as a result of the infusion of ghetto culture into society at large?









I definetly agree with this. Sad.

[Guest]

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Generally I assume any individual claiming to see a long-term, wide-spread social shift from their private little vantage point is overreaching their evidence.

Perhaps, but general observations can be made.

Yet, I merely comment, not judge. That's not my job --

**********
Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, they said to him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus straightened up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She said, "No one, sir." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again." (John 8:2-11)

************

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Snowflake 0]

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They can certainly influence for the worse. Rap is an example.

Can anyone disagree that our society has become meaner and more foul and less civil as a result of the infusion of ghetto culture into society at large?

YES!!!!!!!


Prove the causality of that statment....prove to me that it isn't the basic institutional racicism that still thrives in this country especially in conservitives like yourself.


let me get this right it's not greed, hate, insanity or guns that kill people it's rap. OK......if you say so

[billvon 2,473]

>Can anyone disagree that our society has become meaner and more
> foul and less civil as a result of the infusion of ghetto culture into
> society at large?

Less civil, yes. Just as society became more rude and promiscuous from rock and roll. More people direspecting their elders, doing drugs, having sex, spreading disease etc. We survived that, we will survive rap. I suspect that we will even survive discovering that gay people can feel as much love and commitement as straight people can.

[Guest]

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I suspect that we will even survive discovering that gay people can feel as much love and commitement as straight people can.

It will be interesting to see what the divorce statistics look like.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[narcimund 0]

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It will be interesting to see what the divorce statistics look like.

Does your laughing icon indicate that you're joyfully anticipating a massive gay divorce rate?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Guest]

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It will be interesting to see what the divorce statistics look like.

Does your laughing icon indicate that you're joyfully anticipating a massive gay divorce rate?

Not at all. Just noting that with "rights" come responsibility, as well as a downside. A lot of people seem to conveniently overlook that unpleasant little fact.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 2,473]

>It will be interesting to see what the divorce statistics look like.

I suspect they will look very much like they do now.

[Guest]

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>It will be interesting to see what the divorce statistics look like.

I suspect they will look very much like they do now.

You mean for breeders, right?

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[dbattman 0]

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>It will be interesting to see what the divorce statistics look like.

I suspect they will look very much like they do now.

You mean for breeders, right?

mh

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Us breeders are bumping the 50% mark already. LEt's give it about 10 years and see if there's a statistical difference, shall we?

[billvon 2,473]

>You mean for breeders, right?

Well, no, total. That includes breeders and non-breeder heteros.

[Guest]

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>It will be interesting to see what the divorce statistics look like.

I suspect they will look very much like they do now.

You mean for breeders, right?

mh

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Us breeders are bumping the 50% mark already. LEt's give it about 10 years and see if there's a statistical difference, shall we?

I agree with Mr. von Novak - it'll be pretty much the same.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[gary350 0]

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Unlike you, I'm merely commenting, not passing judgement.

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Yet, I merely comment, not judge.

We must either use a different dictionary or you are in denial. A lot of your statements sure sound judgmental to me.

>. . . homosexual "marriage" is gasoline.

Calling a statement like that a "comment" instead of a judgement tells me that the speaker sees it as a given, akin to pointing out the "truth" of the Bible, or the "word of God".

It's not a given to me, and the implication that it is strikes me as quite judgmental. And arrogant. Which you are completely entitled to, but it's just hard to watch what I consider to be a backtracking denial and not "comment" on it.

[Guest]

It is an opinion, nothing more. There is no backtracking. Allow me to elucidate.

If I said something like--

"ALL YOU QUEERS ARE GONNA BURN IN HAY-ULL!"

or something like that, that would be passing judgement.

It's odd, but I find it ironic that those who carp a lot about tolerance (but are actually demanding "acceptance"), are often those in whom tolerance is sorely lacking.

edit for spelling, parsing and grammar

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[wallygator 0]

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>
Can anyone disagree that our society has become meaner and more foul and less civil as a result of the infusion of ghetto culture into society at large?

mh

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if it wasn't for the ministers of shitstem and propaganda there would be no need for terms like ghetto culture.

cheers

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who Jah bless Let no man curse.

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[Guest]

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>You mean for breeders, right?

Well, no, total. That includes breeders and non-breeder heteros.

Hmmm....I thought "breeder" was the derogatory term that some homosexuals apply to heteros at large, not just those who procreate. Is it reserved exclusively for them? That's not the impression I got from reading Dan Savage's column.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."