Ripple 0 #51 March 16, 2004 Nooooooooooo!!!! Sorry, hon, I have to disagree. There are several conditions that make it very difficult, if not impossible for some people to loose weight. My mother's thyroid packed up 10 years ago and she has been unable to loose any weight in all that time. As a consequence, she now has diabetes which adds further complications. She is physically unable to loose weight through any means. So my beautiful mother who at age 45 weighed 119lbs (5'9"), is, 15 years later, a size 20. The really sad part (if this wasn't bad enough), even though she is still as glamorous, intelligent and beautiful as she always was, people still sometimes treat her with less respect than they did when she was a size 10.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #52 March 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt's not that simple. I think it is that simple. Whether you take the English in 1315, the Irish in the 1840's, Ukranians in the 1930's, Jews in concentration camps in early 1940's or people in Biafra in the 70's or Ethiopia in the 80's or rural citizens of Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe today, when you feed people less - they get real thin. So thin in fact, that bodies literally eat themselves alive, and die. If you think it's a human thing, it's not. Dogs, cattle, horses etc also get thin when they don't eat. People and animals get fat when they eat. Animals use that fat when times are hard. We go to the mall every single day, and we eat. We are literally eating (and smoking) ourselves to death. The only way to get fat is to eat. The only way to lose fat, is to burn more kilojoules than you're feeding yourself. You can make that as complicated as you like, and prey on people's insecurities, and make money from diet books, or home gym equipment, but it's real simple. t In Russia the two biggest problems have been cited as getting enough to eat and losing weight. Certainly a starvation diet of any composition will result in weight loss. However, the fat storage mechanism is by no means a strict function of excess caloric intake. One key to fat storage is insulin. By eating foods that do not trigger insulin production, one can eat a hell of a lot (in terms of amount and calories) and still lose weight. When eating foods that trigger insulin surges, one can eat less, feel hungry all the time and still put on weight. Exercising when in the throes of reactive hypoglycemia is really unpleasant, and doesn't do much to get rid of the lard. Exercise in conjuncion with a balanced diet of low glycemic index foods works just fine. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #53 March 16, 2004 Ripple - that's rough, has she seen a good endocrinologist? A hormone specialist usually has better insight than just a regular MD - I've heard some terrible advice from a normal doctor to people who are overweight for special causes. Tonto - Of course you must burn more than you take in. Yet, certain diets can give your metabolism a boost (so does regular exercise and more muscle mass). That will 'assist' you in burning more than you take in. So I'm not sure why you and Winsor are arguing, you are talking about mutually exclusive ideas and what Winsor is saying is not in conflict with what you are saying. ((There is no diet that lets you pig out and eat more than you burn and still lose weight (without puking) but there are diets that let you burn faster. In the end it is always about self control - you have to stick with whatever you are trying and find out what works.)) In the meantime, more trail mix, and HEY, someone brought chocolates to work. Gotta go. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #54 March 16, 2004 Hi Ripple, Laws of physics. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Energy can only be transformed from one form into another form of energy. Matter cannot be created or destroyed by ordinary means. My sympathy lies with your mom. She's developed a highly efficient metabolism which burns few calories.. but millions starve to death each year. They do so because they're not being fed. Anything. If your mom was fed nothing, she would not gain weight. She would lose weight. No metabolism is so efficient that it could create more energy that the food source provides. I know I’m on politically incorrect ground here, but I want to make it quite clear I’m not talking about “All you can eat, never be hungry and lose weight” or “Eat only protein and go to aerobics 3 times a week” diets. I’m talking the “No food for you. Drink water and wait 6 months” weight loss program as currently practiced all over Africa, or the "900 calories a day and back breaking work for 12 hours or more" as in the concentration camps. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #55 March 16, 2004 QuoteHi Ripple, My sympathy lies with your mom. She's developed a highly efficient metabolism which burns few calories.. but millions starve to death each year. They do so because they're not being fed. Anything. If your mom was fed nothing, she would not gain weight. She would lose weight. I understand exactly what you're saying, and in people, who don't have hypothyroidism or diabetes, thats fine. But in my mother's case - she'd die. Not through starvation itself, but the effects it would have on her body. If she doesn't eat (she's tried eating less and less in increasingly desperate attempts to loose weight) she has horrendous palpitations and looses consciousness, now I don't understand the physiology involved, but I do know that eating less, in someone with my mother's condition is not the way to go.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #56 March 16, 2004 QuoteRipple - that's rough, has she seen a good endocrinologist? A hormone specialist usually has better insight than just a regular MD - I've heard some terrible advice from a normal doctor to people who are overweight for special causes. That's really kind. Thanks for those thoughts. Ma hasn't seen an endocrinologist - her GP hasn't referred her to see any specialist, I don't know why, I don't even think she's asked for it, and as she's a senior trained nurse, she should know better! I'll speak with her. Thank you Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #57 March 16, 2004 QuoteHi Ripple, Laws of physics. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Energy can only be transformed from one form into another form of energy. Matter cannot be created or destroyed by ordinary means. My sympathy lies with your mom. She's developed a highly efficient metabolism which burns few calories.. but millions starve to death each year. They do so because they're not being fed. Anything. If your mom was fed nothing, she would not gain weight. She would lose weight. No metabolism is so efficient that it could create more energy that the food source provides. I know I’m on politically incorrect ground here, but I want to make it quite clear I’m not talking about “All you can eat, never be hungry and lose weight” or “Eat only protein and go to aerobics 3 times a week” diets. I’m talking the “No food for you. Drink water and wait 6 months” weight loss program as currently practiced all over Africa, or the "900 calories a day and back breaking work for 12 hours or more" as in the concentration camps. t Your thesis presupposes 100% digestive efficiency. This is by no means the case, as can be easily demonstrated. What you may not understand about the effect of hormones on weight retention is that someone may be in starvation mode and the fat cells are still busily snagging every glucose molecule that comes their way. To say that carbs alone are the key is oversimplifying things, but breaking it down to a simple material and energy balance is equally oversimplified. Recommending that someone with a broken thyroid go on a starvation diet to address the symptom of weight gain is a bad idea. I'm familiar with a bit of physics - as well as chemistry, biology, physiology, etc.. This, of course, does not make me right, but does leave me skeptical of simplistic "solutions." Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #58 March 16, 2004 QuoteMa hasn't seen an endocrinologist - her GP hasn't referred her to see any specialist, I don't know why, I don't even think she's asked for it, and as she's a senior trained nurse, she should know better! I'll speak with her. Thank you I've seen some remarkable results from this on several people. Don't know if that's your mom's issue, but only one way to find out. Once her system is in balance, then she can work out her diet and exercise system like any normal person.... Tonto Quote“All you can eat, never be hungry and lose weight” or “Eat only protein and go to aerobics 3 times a week” diets. If you read the books (Atkins, South Beach), not a single one advocates what you are quoting. They note that the diet they are advocating involves a close look at the balance of meat/carbs/fat/etc and that this will help them balance or reduce their intake by avoiding an insulin triggered hunger response. These two diets are likely effective for about half of the population and worthless for the rest. That's a good track record and much better than most diet plans. Thus their success and also the bitterness of those it doesn't work for. These books are actually speaking directly in agreement with what you are saying and trying to provide a method to make it easier for those that are compatible. (i.e., control what you eat in 'some way' and exercise) People that think these are 'all you can eat' diets are operating under bad info and speaking out their butts. That makes their breath smell. That said, they won't work for 100% of everyone nor will any diet. But what's wrong with looking at what and how much you eat and supplementing that with exercise? Are you a veggie? Lots of veggies hate these because of the protein emphasis and the mainly roughage-type carb emphasis of the these two diets...... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #59 March 17, 2004 QuoteWhat you may not understand about the effect of hormones on weight retention is that someone may be in starvation mode and the fat cells are still busily snagging every glucose molecule that comes their way. I've never been on Atkins or any other diet. If I'm overweight, it's by 1 or 2 kilo's, and most BMI charts put me at 4 or 5 kilo's underweight for my height and age. I'm not a vegitarian. What I see in Africa, is that people who don't eat get thin, and then they die. What I see on the reality series "Survivor" is people getting thin, then looking normal for the reunion show. I'm not arguing with you. Most starving people are thin. You can argue against that all you like, but any picture from any famine will show the same thing. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
