Question for DPREs/FAA Inspectors

[theonlyski 3]

After a recent discussion with several riggers, Master, Senior and Military... It seems there is a bit of confusion between the three.

According to FAR 65.115:

Quote

(a) Present evidence satisfactory to the Administrator that he has packed at least 20 parachutes of each type for which he seeks a rating, in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions and under the supervision of a certificated parachute rigger holding a rating for that type or a person holding an appropriate military rating;

It seems pretty cut-and-dry that if I were to be supervised in packing a T-10R chest container for which a military rigger is authorized, that it could be logged and validly counted as one of the 20 repacks needed to obtain a Senior Rigger with Chest type.

My questions are:

How does the pack job get logged, and how do you verify them? Keep in mind; most MILITARY riggers don’t have FAA tickets or seals.

If the rigger is authorized to repair/pack/maintain a square back type reserve, then is that also valid for the supervising of a rigger apprentice in getting his 20 logged packs?

As DPRE's would you accept packjobs done on chest or back reserves, and what would you require to authenticate that they were packed under the supervision of an appropriate military rigger?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[JerryBaumchen 1,061]

Hi Robert,

Since it was back in the mid-60's I do not remember exactly but I seem to remember that the Master Rigger that I trained under merely wrote a letter to the FAA stating that he had supervised 20 each pack jobs of each type of rating that I was seeking.

I would think that some sort of 'official looking' letter should do the trick.

JerryBaumchen

[matthewcline 0]

+1

This is how most of the Army Riggers on FTCKY who went forward and got an FAA Seal did it as well.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[riggerpaul 1]

+2

It doesn't say they must be logged.

It only says that you must present "evidence satisfactory to the Administrator".

[councilman24 36]

Log the stuff.

They'll count toward master and the best place is in a log. The military rigger can sign off in the log itself, as well as supply a letter with qualifications and confirming your work.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Canadianfella 0]

Quote

+2

It doesn't say they must be logged.

It only says that you must present "evidence satisfactory to the Administrator".

And if the dink at the FSDO decides he doesn't like what he sees, or is too stupid to understand, you wasted your time and have to find another FSDO to go to...

Example:

I have a CSPA rigger A rating. 10 supervised pack jobs, a 40 hr course and 10 more on my own for a "continuous" rating. I held this rating for 1.5 years before trying to get an FAA senior rating. I had 35+ packs... only 10 signed in my log as supervised. I also had a letter from a Master Rigger and my DPRE present to say I had done all my packs but the guy wouldn't let me do my written test.

The guy then proceeded to approve a friend who had his 20, one of which was supervised by ME... signed with my Canadian license and seal number,.. AND had the nerve to ask if the logbook was for "main packs or emergency packs"....

FAA guys are 'typically' dinks... CYA is my suggestion. LOG EVERYTHING and find someone to sign it off... if the FAA can find a way to screw you, they will.

[theonlyski 3]

Quote

Quote

+2

It doesn't say they must be logged.

It only says that you must present "evidence satisfactory to the Administrator".

And if the dink at the FSDO decides he doesn't like what he sees, or is too stupid to understand, you wasted your time and have to find another FSDO to go to...

Example:

I have a CSPA rigger A rating. 10 supervised pack jobs, a 40 hr course and 10 more on my own for a "continuous" rating. I held this rating for 1.5 years before trying to get an FAA senior rating. I had 35+ packs... only 10 signed in my log as supervised. I also had a letter from a Master Rigger and my DPRE present to say I had done all my packs but the guy wouldn't let me do my written test.

The guy then proceeded to approve a friend who had his 20, one of which was supervised by ME... signed with my Canadian license and seal number,.. AND had the nerve to ask if the logbook was for "main packs or emergency packs"....

FAA guys are 'typically' dinks... CYA is my suggestion. LOG EVERYTHING and find someone to sign it off... if the FAA can find a way to screw you, they will.

Tell us how you really feel!

Yeah, thats what Im worried about actually, that they wont count them, Im going to try for all 3 ratings at once, so its going to be a PITA!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[riggerrob 558]

Let's try to be more diplomatic in our dealings with the FAA.

Start by remembering that few FAA bureaucrats have ever done a skydive and fewer of them have any formal rigging training ... and that rigging training may have been done on smoke-jumper (forest fire fighter) equipment.
So FAA bureaucrats are in the awkward position of having to "regulate" a business that they know very little about.
A better solution is to present a neat pile of paperwork - more than they really need - along with a verbal explanation of the process. They will disappear into the back office, review the appropriate FAR - to confirm compliance - and stamp your paperwork.
Those lazy idiots - who try to fool the FAA - because they are too lazy to do all the practical work, only make life more difficult for hard-working riggers.

If anyone tries to tell me a tall tale, I just let them babble, then conclude with "show me how to pack that reserve."

Rob Warner
FAA Master Rigger
CSPA Rigger Examiner