captain1976 0 #1 September 28, 2009 Just got my new Spectre a few days ago and though the colors are right, they used 550 microline when I ordered 825. I have a copy of the order form which I originally faxed to them. Should I call them and have it re-lined? I hate to think of someone un-stitching my brand new canopy to put new lines in? Additionally, is there any significant difference in the life expectancy of the 550 vs 825? The other problem is that I sold my other canopy and have nothing else to jump. I waited over 2 months for it.You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #2 September 28, 2009 the best thing would have been to call PD first before posting in a public forum. Odds are very good that they'll make it right for you and minimize your inconvenience while doing so.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #3 September 28, 2009 They don't have to unstich the canopy to replace the lines. Only the lines themselves. And I expect they'd cut them off. The line attachment points are not removed. Let them make it right. Have to ask, your sure it's 550? The 825 looks awefully small to me.Just kidding, kind of. If you haven't handled both be sure. If you have my appologies. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #4 September 28, 2009 what poster above me said. also, you may just ask them to give you a credit, to prorate the shorter life of a 550 lineset, and keep jumping it. just a thought, as that will keep you in the air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #5 September 28, 2009 oh, and surely, for someone who has a LAP rating listed on their profile, you are not scared of the manufacturer relining a canopy :) ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #6 September 28, 2009 Quote oh, and surely, for someone who has a LAP rating listed on their profile, you are not scared of the manufacturer relining a canopy :) ? Ther hasn't been a lap rating issued in over 50 years. I call bull shit. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #7 September 28, 2009 An Airplane dealer thinks the appropriate action is to come into a public forum and bitch and moan before contacting the manufacturer?? What an arse. That is not how businessman behave. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #8 September 28, 2009 Quote They don't have to unstich the canopy to replace the lines. Except for the six bartacks that attach the outer suspension lines to the stabilizers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #9 September 28, 2009 Quotebitch and moan before contacting the manufacturer??I missed that part. I did however read that a guy wanted to learn more about suspension line choices and line replacement technique before making a decision on corrective action to be taken. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #10 September 28, 2009 I understand companies do make mistakes and I put it to the public forum for advise from my fellow jumpers. I have nothing but respect for PD and I feel they are a great company. Just because I have a rigger rating doesn’t mean anything. Many riggers like myself are simply parachute packers and since I got it 35 years ago, I do not stay current as its not my profession. Thank you for those who responded.You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #11 September 28, 2009 There ARE several living riggers with lap ratings. But no A Michael Fisher in WI or FL with a lap rating.That's why I've been searching and Don Meyer has a reward offered for a lap rig. If we can only find a rig I have a navy book that includes the lap in it's fairly general packing instructions. Then the FAA would have to figure out a way to give the rating. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #12 September 28, 2009 What is a lap rating?You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #13 September 28, 2009 https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/ FAA Registry Name Inquiry Results ALFRED MICHAEL FISCHER Address Street 1201 COUNTY ROAD H City GENOA CITY State WI County WALWORTH Zip Code 53128-1974 Country USA Medical Medical Class: Third Medical Date: 5/2008 # MUST WEAR CORRECTIVE LENSES. Certificates 2 of 2 1 2 DOI: 4/1/2004 ORIGINAL DOI 05/15/1974 Certificate: SENIOR PARACHUTE RIGGERYou live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #14 September 28, 2009 DOI: 4/1/2004 Certificate: SENIOR PARACHUTE RIGGER Rating(s): SENIOR PARACHUTE RIGGER BACK CHEST You left out the relevent part. You have bacK and chest ratings. Issued, at least one, in 2004. This means that you can't pack a seat pack pilot rig. I hate to know it but your supposed to know what a lap rating is. FAA issues back, seat, chest and lap ratings according to the regulations. Lap parachutes haven't been made since WWII and there are no Rigger Examiners with a lap rating. Several of us have been trying to find a lap rating to try to resurect is just for fun.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #15 September 28, 2009 Actually I do have the seat rating and do pack those types. When the FAA re-issued the certificates in 2004 they left out the seat. They also left out a couple of my pilot ratings. I complained and they sent me a letter with those authorizations but it won't show up on the actual certificates until I turn in the old ones. Since I'm legal I'm not in any hurry to do so. Maybe I don't recollect that old LAP rating, but do you know about the "Chair" type? Blue SkiesYou live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #16 September 28, 2009 Actually, I have a manual for using a chair parachtue. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #17 September 28, 2009 The American Federal Air Regulations mention back, chest, seat and lap type parachutes. "Lap" type parachutes were only made during the 1930s and only to fit an obsolete type of gun turret. "Lap" type harnesses are similar to "chest" type harnesses, albeit with longer risers. "Lap" type containers look like "chest" containers at first glance, but upon closer examination are shaped more like some of the old US Navy seat packs (14 inches wide, 14 inches long and 3 or 4 inches thick). "Lap" ripcords are as short as "chest" ripcords. They were replaced by the (similar) chest type parachute during the Second World War. "Chair" is also referred to as "long back" pilot emergency parachute like a Long Softie, Security 150 and some of Strong's Para-Cushions. A typical "chair" type parachute container is 14 inches wide, 40 inches long and 2 inches thick at the shoulders, tapering to almost zero under the pilot's thighs. "Chairs" were invented during the 1960s for the supine (steeply reclined) seats in the new generation of fibeglass sailplanes being developed in Germany. The nice thing about "chairs" is that they are so thin they can be stuffed into almost any type of airplane. Any FAA rigger who holds a "back" type rating can also repack "chair" type PEPs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #18 September 28, 2009 Quote Any FAA rigger who holds a "back" type rating can also repack "chair" type PEPs. Riggerrob, If a chair type can be packed by someone with a back rating, why then couldn't someone with just a back rating pack a seat? Does the FAA have any clarification on this? ThanksYou live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #19 September 28, 2009 I would hate to waste the time cutting off (airworthy) 550 pound lines, just to sew on new 825 pound lines. No canopy stitches need to be cut - only lines - because the line attachment tapes remain sewn to the bottom skin. Far wiser to grumble to the PD factory and ask them to pro-rate a replacement set of 825 lines a few years down the road. 550 pound lines will last around 500 jumps, with 825 pound lines lasting around 800 jumps, by then both sets of lines will have shrunk/stretched so far out of trim .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #20 September 28, 2009 Right as usual Rob. This is the only picture I have ever seen of a “lap” type system. I have never seen one or talked to any rigger that holds a "lap" rating. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #21 September 28, 2009 I've got better photos than that. And there is one in Poynter's also. As I said I have a Navy manual that discusses packing lap parachutes. Simply says what is different from a seat. (container is reversed 180 degrees.) I have talked with someone who has talked with a rigger that has a lap rating. If we ever can find one we can get 20 pack jobs and try to force the FAA to give us the rating. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #22 September 28, 2009 Rob, I actually thought he was referring to the old airline seats that had parachutes built into them. I just got an old manual that has the best illustrations of those I've ever seen. And I've just found two or three new patents for airline seats with parachute. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #23 September 28, 2009 QuoteI would hate to waste the time cutting off (airworthy) 550 pound lines, just to sew on new 825 pound lines. No canopy stitches need to be cut - only lines - because the line attachment tapes remain sewn to the bottom skin. Far wiser to grumble to the PD factory and ask them to pro-rate a replacement set of 825 lines a few years down the road. 550 pound lines will last around 500 jumps, with 825 pound lines lasting around 800 jumps, by then both sets of lines will have shrunk/stretched so far out of trim .... Will take your advise and keep the 550's until they need replacement. I spoke with the manufacturer today and acknowledged the error. They are quite apologetic about the mix up and will give me a free reline anytime in the future. What a great companyYou live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavydude 0 #24 September 28, 2009 Quote 550 pound lines will last around 500 jumps, with 825 pound lines lasting around 800 jumps, by then both sets of lines will have shrunk/stretched so far out of trim .... Im curious because Im about ready to order a new main; How does dacron compare in # of jumps. I have read lots of threads about more elongation/better for heavy jumpers. My old main has dacron, but its trashed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #25 September 29, 2009 QuoteI have read lots of threads about more elongation/better for heavy jumpers Nylon – 30 to 35 % Polyester (Dacron) – 15 to 20 % Spectra – 5 to 9 % Technora (HMA) – 4.6 % Vectran – 3.3 to 3.7 % Kevlar – 1.0 % SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
