jillr 0 #26 September 1, 2004 Quote Why not just take a man to stand on? are you offering to be my bath mat? cause that'd be super! ;-) QuoteI guess your idea of "no" and my idea of "no" are two different things. I guess maybe the way you put it to them might have made a difference too. How's that saying go? you'll attract more bees with honey? Asking for a minute to finish up might have avoided the whole thing and not turned you off to the boogie in such a terrible tragic way. They probably didn't reply because they are a relatively small group and the website has gone thru a change of hands this year. I'm going to step out on a limb and say it was lost in the webmaster shuffle. Another thing I could educate newbies on is the beer truck is open everyday all day. Do us all a favor and don't think you can have a drink with supper and still make that sunset load. It makes me sick to my stomach when I hear the sirens coming straight for the airport or life flight landing to refuel before picking up someone at the hospital to take them to a qualified trama center. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shellybellyfly 0 #27 September 1, 2004 Good advice... And I know for a fact that MOST guys will be respectful and wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shellybellyfly 0 #28 September 1, 2004 Who's going to Dollar Daze!!!???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 0 #29 September 1, 2004 QuoteGood advice... And I know for a fact that MOST guys will be respectful and wait. It's the girls I have the most trouble with. But then again I don't consider it trouble Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #30 September 1, 2004 QuoteEveryone who can needs to come! You won't forget it... But what happens at Dollar Daze stays at Dollar Daze! Yep, what happens there stays there! That’s the credo we operate on, but “real world” you can add “unless it’s recorded on film or video!” Skydivers are like a bunch of Japanese tourists these days, there’s always a camera running!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #31 September 1, 2004 After considering your opinion, and thinking about it, I think you have made an excellent decision by just not doing this boogie. I also think that the “shower issue” seems to cull the herd quite nicely. Couch Freaks has an attitude about it that I think is really cool, if you to uptight to deal with the shower issue, I think we’re all better off if you go to one of the other Labor Day Boogies! Have a good time this weekend doing whatever, and showering where ever you may!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #32 September 8, 2004 QuoteGood advice... And I know for a fact that MOST guys will be respectful and wait. Read the thread in the Women's Forum before you state this, or call Mary a prude, or just state "It's a PARTY, lighten up". It's about respecting the women's requests when they make them. You really don't get it. It's not about MOST guys, it's about the few childish creeps that don't wait or move. IN the last five years, we've had several women groped, one guy masterbate in the corner while three women showered (I was just told this one this year by a nice young woman), and also men constantly refusing to respect individual women's request for privacy - if the female doesn't care, that's cool, but if they do, that should also be respected. Thursday night, two of the Couch Freaks (Joy one of them) were looking for a way to lock the wheel. But they gave up, and didn't want to remove the wheel since it had so much history. Mary - this year, we had the water heater in the camper on incase any of our girls wanted to shower in private. We did the 60 way also this time. We missed you and I hope your arm gets better. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #33 September 8, 2004 QuoteAfter considering your opinion, and thinking about it, I think you have made an excellent decision by just not doing this boogie. I also think that the “shower issue” seems to cull the herd quite nicely. Couch Freaks has an attitude about it that I think is really cool, if you to uptight to deal with the shower issue, I think we’re all better off if you go to one of the other Labor Day Boogies! Have a good time this weekend doing whatever, and showering where ever you may! That's just sad. "Believe in what I believe in or you are uptight - lighten up man." Too bad there isn't age information in the profiles. What is there that is difficult in understanding about respect for other people? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shellybellyfly 0 #34 September 8, 2004 I'm not saying that people are uptight, just that there are other options. Let's drop this subject as everyone has different views on it and we will never come to an agreement. Why don't we discuss how much FUN Dollar Daze was this year! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jillr 0 #35 September 8, 2004 AMEN! edited to add... the fun I had... well let's go with the what happens at freaks, stay at freaks theory. I'll let someone else do the talking. I sure did enjoy walking up the stage however to get the neptune! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shellybellyfly 0 #36 September 8, 2004 I noticed that you won that, congrats! And I'm not doing any talking either, except that it was a blast! It sucked coming back to the real world.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jillr 0 #37 September 8, 2004 and joy almost gave it to someone else because she couldn't see me! ack- the horror! ;-) thanks couchfreaks for another good boogie! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites atsaubrey 0 #38 September 8, 2004 If you have never went to Freaks, you must go next year! I have become a regular Freaks traveler FOR SURE! This boogie freaking ROX! Think of it as the Strugis of skydiving...i'm 100% serious with this comment. It was awesome meeting all the really kewl people form DZ.com and from all over the midwest. Oh and the boobies were wonderful. I'll try to get some pics posted later today, I will leave out any incriminating evidence for you fellow Dz.commers"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #39 September 8, 2004 That's just sad. "Believe in what I believe in or you are uptight - lighten up man." Too bad there isn't age information in the profiles. What is there that is difficult in understanding about respect for other people? You’re absolutely correct in that if everyone respected each other regarding the “shower issue” there would be no issue, and I don’t know what the answer is (that would satisfy everyone). I also had a short conversation with Joy and the club members are quite aware of the issue. She also told me that in her 15 years she has never taken a shower with a guy, for whatever that’s worth. I don’t think this particular boogie is for everyone, I talked with my wife about it and we agreed that it will be quite a long time before we would allow our boys to attend Couch Freaks. I would whole heartedly agree that the examples you gave are not only inappropriate and even punishable by law, although I wouldn’t want to see it ever come to that. Everyone I know form Kansas respects the women’s right to shower with the same sex, and will always ask some sort of question before entering (boys, girls, both? Or just “is the water cold?” giving anyone a chance to say “women only please”, or whatever) I do things at this boogie that would never be allowed at my DZ, which is exactly the point. Also, I didn’t start this thread to make enemies, that’s why I became a DZO (lol). This boogie is our chance to leave Kansas behind for a weekend and have some fun! There was only one of the 5 DZs open in Kansas Labor Day Weekend, as everyone else was in Iowa. Martin Myrtle Air Capital Drop Zone 7001 S 143 rd East Wichita Kansas 316-776-1700 www.aircapitaldropzone.com [email protected] DZO 39 years of age, except in when in Iowa Married for 5 years two sons 7 months and 2.5 years 10 years Couch Freaks 15 years skydiving anything else?Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #30 September 1, 2004 QuoteEveryone who can needs to come! You won't forget it... But what happens at Dollar Daze stays at Dollar Daze! Yep, what happens there stays there! That’s the credo we operate on, but “real world” you can add “unless it’s recorded on film or video!” Skydivers are like a bunch of Japanese tourists these days, there’s always a camera running!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #31 September 1, 2004 After considering your opinion, and thinking about it, I think you have made an excellent decision by just not doing this boogie. I also think that the “shower issue” seems to cull the herd quite nicely. Couch Freaks has an attitude about it that I think is really cool, if you to uptight to deal with the shower issue, I think we’re all better off if you go to one of the other Labor Day Boogies! Have a good time this weekend doing whatever, and showering where ever you may!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #32 September 8, 2004 QuoteGood advice... And I know for a fact that MOST guys will be respectful and wait. Read the thread in the Women's Forum before you state this, or call Mary a prude, or just state "It's a PARTY, lighten up". It's about respecting the women's requests when they make them. You really don't get it. It's not about MOST guys, it's about the few childish creeps that don't wait or move. IN the last five years, we've had several women groped, one guy masterbate in the corner while three women showered (I was just told this one this year by a nice young woman), and also men constantly refusing to respect individual women's request for privacy - if the female doesn't care, that's cool, but if they do, that should also be respected. Thursday night, two of the Couch Freaks (Joy one of them) were looking for a way to lock the wheel. But they gave up, and didn't want to remove the wheel since it had so much history. Mary - this year, we had the water heater in the camper on incase any of our girls wanted to shower in private. We did the 60 way also this time. We missed you and I hope your arm gets better. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #33 September 8, 2004 QuoteAfter considering your opinion, and thinking about it, I think you have made an excellent decision by just not doing this boogie. I also think that the “shower issue” seems to cull the herd quite nicely. Couch Freaks has an attitude about it that I think is really cool, if you to uptight to deal with the shower issue, I think we’re all better off if you go to one of the other Labor Day Boogies! Have a good time this weekend doing whatever, and showering where ever you may! That's just sad. "Believe in what I believe in or you are uptight - lighten up man." Too bad there isn't age information in the profiles. What is there that is difficult in understanding about respect for other people? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shellybellyfly 0 #34 September 8, 2004 I'm not saying that people are uptight, just that there are other options. Let's drop this subject as everyone has different views on it and we will never come to an agreement. Why don't we discuss how much FUN Dollar Daze was this year! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jillr 0 #35 September 8, 2004 AMEN! edited to add... the fun I had... well let's go with the what happens at freaks, stay at freaks theory. I'll let someone else do the talking. I sure did enjoy walking up the stage however to get the neptune! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shellybellyfly 0 #36 September 8, 2004 I noticed that you won that, congrats! And I'm not doing any talking either, except that it was a blast! It sucked coming back to the real world.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jillr 0 #37 September 8, 2004 and joy almost gave it to someone else because she couldn't see me! ack- the horror! ;-) thanks couchfreaks for another good boogie! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #38 September 8, 2004 If you have never went to Freaks, you must go next year! I have become a regular Freaks traveler FOR SURE! This boogie freaking ROX! Think of it as the Strugis of skydiving...i'm 100% serious with this comment. It was awesome meeting all the really kewl people form DZ.com and from all over the midwest. Oh and the boobies were wonderful. I'll try to get some pics posted later today, I will leave out any incriminating evidence for you fellow Dz.commers"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #39 September 8, 2004 That's just sad. "Believe in what I believe in or you are uptight - lighten up man." Too bad there isn't age information in the profiles. What is there that is difficult in understanding about respect for other people? You’re absolutely correct in that if everyone respected each other regarding the “shower issue” there would be no issue, and I don’t know what the answer is (that would satisfy everyone). I also had a short conversation with Joy and the club members are quite aware of the issue. She also told me that in her 15 years she has never taken a shower with a guy, for whatever that’s worth. I don’t think this particular boogie is for everyone, I talked with my wife about it and we agreed that it will be quite a long time before we would allow our boys to attend Couch Freaks. I would whole heartedly agree that the examples you gave are not only inappropriate and even punishable by law, although I wouldn’t want to see it ever come to that. Everyone I know form Kansas respects the women’s right to shower with the same sex, and will always ask some sort of question before entering (boys, girls, both? Or just “is the water cold?” giving anyone a chance to say “women only please”, or whatever) I do things at this boogie that would never be allowed at my DZ, which is exactly the point. Also, I didn’t start this thread to make enemies, that’s why I became a DZO (lol). This boogie is our chance to leave Kansas behind for a weekend and have some fun! There was only one of the 5 DZs open in Kansas Labor Day Weekend, as everyone else was in Iowa. Martin Myrtle Air Capital Drop Zone 7001 S 143 rd East Wichita Kansas 316-776-1700 www.aircapitaldropzone.com [email protected] DZO 39 years of age, except in when in Iowa Married for 5 years two sons 7 months and 2.5 years 10 years Couch Freaks 15 years skydiving anything else?Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #40 September 8, 2004 In other words, you agree with me. So what do you want to do about the juvenile freaks other than just take away the opportunity for them? And I know you - you did have lots of fun. And I would also like to invite you onto my volleyball team as well. Still, telling Mary to bug off that way wasn't right. I suspect it came out harder than intended. "if you to uptight to deal with the shower issue, I think we’re all better off if you go to one of the other Labor Day Boogies" See what I mean? Some of us are pretty protective of her. no biggie, she can care for herself. see you next year. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jillr 0 #41 September 8, 2004 and maybe the way she handeled it wasn't right either... there's no need to condemn a whole boogie just because of a couple punks that likely won't be back the next year. 99.99% of the men wouldn't give women in the showers a hint of a problem, those that do... maybe we ought to add a 4th catagory to the best dressed party saturday night for being tarred and feathered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #42 September 8, 2004 Now that’s the Couch Freaks Spirit we all love! I’ll admit to being a little provocative with my reply to Mary, and apologize here and now for it! No matter what we do or where we go there’ll always be a few troublesome people who will inevitably ruin things for everyone! Sounds like you provided an answer at least for your group with a shower in your RV. I’d love to play on your Volley Ball team, although I’m a little competitive and have stepped on some toes (literally and figuratively) in the past in that game. In reality I don’t expect that it’ll be an issue as we’re a little geographically challenged. See ya next year in Iowa, have we started the “count down” yet? PS If anyone else wondered, No I don’t play Basketball! QuoteIn other words, you agree with me. So what do you want to do about the juvenile freaks other than just take away the opportunity for them? And I know you - you did have lots of fun. And I would also like to invite you onto my volleyball team as well. Still, telling Mary to bug off that way wasn't right. I suspect it came out harder than intended. "if you to uptight to deal with the shower issue, I think we’re all better off if you go to one of the other Labor Day Boogies" See what I mean? Some of us are pretty protective of her. no biggie, she can care for herself. see you next year.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #43 September 8, 2004 Okay, guess it's time to speak up again. Just to make a few things clean. I never condemned a whole boogie. See here. QuoteYes, The Freaks do a wonderful job of providing facilities to that airport. I know what it takes to put a boogie on. Clean porta potties, lots of friendly vendors, friendly manifestors, great food, and great skydives with people like Sandy doing the LO thing. I've been to lots of boogies through out the country, maybe Couch Freaks just isn't for me. It's too bad cause I missed seeing some friends and doing some fun skydives. Times are changing. What happens today when it comes to sexual matters, is different then what was accepted years ago when Couch Freaks started. People that skydive come from more professional backgrounds. They have to be, in order to afford this sport. If some people accept some of the sexual behavior that has been know to happen at certain boogies, that's their right if they attend or not. But, be forward, some behavior will not be accepted or tolerated. And what a better way to show that you don't accept the behavior by not spending your money there. I have seen the numbers decline over recent years for boogie attendance. There are a number of reasons for that. Be it not having a Specialty item to draw jumps, or maybe because a jumper can go just about any where and jump from an Otter, SkyVan, or Casa. What needs to be done to bring back those jumpers to said boogies? Maybe if the organizers listened to what the jumpers want, then maybe the jumpers will return. I'm sure that my not going didn't effect the organizers of Couch Freaks one bit. But maybe, just maybe, someone else heard about the shower situation and they didn't attend because of it. I'm allowed to voice my opinion, and if I don't like the lack of changes at a place that I want to spend my money, then I just won't spend my money there. The bottom line here is this. NO! Means NO! Oh, and one more thing. I'm so sick of the excuse "But it's a boogie, and we're just having fun cause we are skydivers." I say Bull Shit. Being at a boogie and being a skydiver is not an excuse for lude, drink, or obnoxious behavior. We are all responsible for our actions. Stepping down from my soap box now.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #44 September 8, 2004 I was there when Mary had a specific incident - So was my wife and my best friend's girlfriend - The women were taking a shower, a man pushed his way into the shower. They nicely asked him to wait outside as they didn't want him in there. He rudely refused and made a huge issue citing "it's a boogie" as his main point. My friend and I 'gently' enforced our position on the issue - Mary handled the situation just fine - she didn't condemn the boogie, just the showers. You can take one of two positions: 1 - The woman's wish for privacy, regardless of the reason, is pointless and should be ridiculed or; 2 - ALL men should respect a women's wish for privacy and if a couple men screw it up, then we do something different. (it's not an issue is a woman doesn't care, but some do so that's not the discussion) I pick position 2 and I don't care if it's a boogie or 'regular' life. But you two seem to say that 'everyone you know' picks position 2 as would you - and then proceed to espouse position 1 as acceptable. It's confusing. In otherwords, you agree that respecting women is ok, but don't want to appear uptight just because the issue is perverts and nudity. So you can understand my confusion. I other words, we all agree that most people will respect the wishes of the women. But those (few?) that don't, think the boogie is a big license to be perverts. Answer this, how would feel if you were one of the girls in the shower when the one creep was wacking off. Should I say you are 'uptight' and it's 'just a boogie' and to 'get over it' and 'go to another Labor Day boogie'? Heck, what's wrong with you? Why didn't you go over and help him out? It's just a boogie...... At least you recommend one idea - though vigilante justice is also frowned upon in today's society. And freaks like this would just take the "tar and feathering" as a badge of honor. I still don't understand why decent people would have one set of morals in their own house but not elsewhere. I don't know how I'd teach that to my children. It's also amazing to me that some women will take the side of men who don't respect simple privacy requests of other women (or those that refuse to see the issue as clearly as that). As for men, well, we're pigs, easy enough. As for 'a couple punks' - it's chronic and if you know enough of the people, you'll find yearly incidents. I'd be happy to take this offline or to revisit the topic in the Women's Forum - let me know. In the meantime: Couch - great 4-way meet, fun 60 way, some of the best freeflying I've ever done, really partied hard especially Friday night, won a big prize in the drawing, played with friends, not much swooping too windy, no CrW. It's my favorite boogie of all time. I'm glad you had a good time. Be safe. Edit: And about every single Kansas area skydiver I've met I've been proud to know and play with. That goes for Martin too. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #45 April 27, 2005 Just FYI, I saw that Couch Freaks 2005 will have “Brand New Women Only Showers!”Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
