LloydDobbler 2 #26 September 19, 2008 Also, a couple more things (from someone who still considers himself new, but who would have had enough jumps to be an AFF-I before the rules changed about 3 years ago): 1) As for buying your own gear, you'd be foolish to buy it now, anyway. To have it set up for static line would be a pain, and would take longer than you'd like. As someone who's 5'5" and 115, I can somewhat understand the frustration/discomfort. Dunno about Snohomish, but at my home DZ they had a few rental rigs that they transitioned us to after we got through AFF, allowing us to gradually downsize before getting our own gear. Which helps, when your first gear might be something like a 150. Anyway, that "suck it up, cupcake" phrase gets used a lot around here. Get used to it. You'll be licensed and ready for your own gear sooner than you think. Quote Relax and have fun - I can do that once I'm out of the plane. Again, it's the getting out that's where the anxiety comes in. On my very first tandem jump, once the chute was open my first words were "Are you fucking kidding me?!? Cut the cords and let's go again!!" Surprisingly, he refused. I'm all about the freefall. The canopy ride is just a necessity so I can survive it. Like many have said, the canopy ride IS important...so I won't beat a dead horse on that point. But just wanted to point out: I know. It IS tough to relax. As someone who went through AFF, I had a different experience than yours - but I'v got enough experience to know that relaxing at any time is tough when you're first learning to skydive. There's always something to be anxious about - whether it's getting to the door, getting OUT of the door, jumping with new people, or any of the other million points of tension that go through one's mind when starting out skydiving. Point is, as peregrinerose pointed out, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. For me, one of the most rewarding parts of taking up skydiving was learning to control my fears, and to keep myself calm under all kinds of pressure. Even if that 'getting out the door' thing isn't scaring you - let's just say you're one of the types who's just pissed off when it seems you can't do something - that's all the more reason to tell yourself - force yourself - to relax as you're climbing out on the strut. You'll find it helps quite a bit. Learn to make yourself conscious, aware, and relaxed - even about the things you're most worried about - and you'll be a much better skydiver for it. A big part of that will come as you start to trust in your abilities more...and that will only come with experience. (So get out there and do it again). Good luck!Signatures are the new black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #27 September 19, 2008 Oh, come on 'suck it up cupcake' is a GREAT phrase, useful in a host of scenarios. If anything, it's never used enough... kind of like cowbell, you can always have more Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadiDadi 0 #28 September 19, 2008 I'm more familliar with 'suck it up buttercup' courtesy of my sister but either one works. I wasn't offended by it by any stretch. I did come across the wrong way with part of what I said. I do not in any way shape or form think that canopy skills are to be taken lightly. In fact, the more I get the chance to do it, I more I enjoy it. I know that skill with canopy piloting is the thing that will make or, literally, break me. I was only trying to get across the point that I wasn't afraid of anything to do with being out of the plane just with the process of getting out of the plane. Thankfully, the weather has turned to shite here today so I was forced to stay home and not go jump today. Thankfully because my arm still hurts along with the muscles in my shoulder and down my side. I'm also now the proud owner of a pair of gloves that footballers use to help them hold onto the ball. A friend of mine who is a former pro suggested I try them. If for nothing but the psychological safety of them. I'll add them to my talisman collection. Dad's jump wings? Check! Golden Knights coin? Check! Child sized football gloves? Check! Just please someone stop me before I get a rabbit's foot and a troll doll and end up looking like a car dash board or one of those bingo ladies... If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you. **************************** Be like the cupcake and suck it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #29 September 19, 2008 QuoteYou are very wrong on this one. According to your profile, you are roughly 200 lbs out the door, and unless you are insanely out of shape, you're probably at least 5'6". The OP is a small framed girl. Student gear is sized to fit 'most' jumpers, and 'most' jumpers are male, 5'6" or taller, and 150 lbs or heavier. Yeah well.. I wasn't always specifically referring to the OP in my post, also ranting in general. I'm 6'2" by the way, so I know all about ill fitting rigs. I jumped a rig a few times that had the cutaway and reserve so high when I was wearing it that I could just see it in freefall. I did a lot of reserve dummies before feeling comfortable (touching my handles on the ground, in the plane and in freefall, with my eyes closed). Quote She has a MUCH smaller frame, so the rig will fit her very differently, and will cause bruising. YOU didn't get bruises because the fit of student gear is very different for you than her. Trust me, I've worked with a hundred students now, and was a smaller framed student myself.... I see how gear fits different people differently and who gets bruises where. The part you're referring to wasn't criticsm (of the OP anyway), just saying that the student gear may fit poorly but it isn't "unsafe".. Quote There is no prejudace against student gear.. it is what it is.... starter gear for first jumps. Buying your own gear somewhere around an A license (USED, not NEW!!) makes sense for several reasons.... 1. Consistency... you learn much more much more quickly when you are on the same rig every single skydive. With student gear, depending on student loads that day, you may not have the same gear two loads in a row much less 2 days in a row. Like I said, I'm from a small DZ - I was often able to jump the same rig or even my own packjob. I guess that's different and i was lucky.. Quote 3. Learning gear. Students learn, trust, and appreciate gear more when it's their own... when they can take it home and pack it themselves, ask questions about it, work with their riggers to maintain it, actually look at it at home on their own time and really get to know their equipment. A favourite pet peeve of mine is when someone has 175 jumps but stand around helplessly when there's no packer. Or when someone with that amount of jumps doesn't even attempt to untangle a main but simply palms it off to the packers. Quote 4. Money. You can get a decent starter rig for $2000, sometimes less, then when ready for newer gear or upgrades, sell it and make most of that money back... it's a good investment, better than renting gear. I guess the markets are different over here.. stuff is more expensive and when looking for gear I rarely saw anything above a 190 for sale.. but I'm sure that some experienced jumper will chime in now to correct this impression. Quote Broaden your views a LOT.... your experience is not the same as every experience. Sure. But heaven forbid a low-timer like me talks about anything than from their own experiences on DZ.com. Additionally, I was feeling cranky and took a random stab at the "quick downsizing crowd" and the people who buy a rig to "grow into". How is this relevant to the OP? I don't recommend she waits until she has over 150 jumps, like I did. What i said was: Quote take your time in deciding whether skydiving is for you and just how much you can reasonably expect to jump. Then buy gear You'll know when you're ready, just don't rush. That's all."That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LloydDobbler 2 #30 September 19, 2008 Quote Oh, come on 'suck it up cupcake' is a GREAT phrase, useful in a host of scenarios. If anything, it's never used enough... kind of like cowbell, you can always have more I couldn't agree more. I've actually been thinking I need to put it on a t-shirt. I imagine it'll go over almost as well as my 'Jesus was a Freeflyer' shirt does at the DZ... Signatures are the new black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadiDadi 0 #31 September 19, 2008 QuoteI thought Snohomish had AFF previously?? I don't know what they used to offer but now Snohomish offers Static Line Progression or Tandem Progression. Thank god I opted for the Tandem Progression! It would really have sucked to hit this kind of snag on my first jump. The views are great there, that's for sure. Funny thing for me, though is that the instructors like to point out things in the plane to students - that's Puget Sound, there's Mt. Baker, over there is downtown Seattle... I stay with them up to this point. Then it becomes that's Lake Thingamajig and over there is Mt. Whooziwhats and waaaaaay over there is Mt. Giantsnowything. It's all pretty but I think I'm the only person up there that doesn't spend time in the woods. I don't camp well, I think hiking is odd, I don't ski anymore and I tried snowboarding once and ended up in a cast for 3 months. Quotenoted a cringe for travel to Kapowsin (Shelton) are you coming from up north? I live in Seattle in Fremont so the Edmonds - Kingston ferry wouldn't save me any time really. I could take the Bremerton ferry but it's $30.00 round trip (for either ferry) - the mileage is shorter but it takes almost an hour longer. My sister-in-law lives in Olympia. I may park myself at her house for a few days and get things done at Kapowsin.If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you. **************************** Be like the cupcake and suck it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #32 September 19, 2008 Remember that instructors aren't pointing out Mt. Giantsnowything just for shits and giggles... as you progress in your training, you will need to know all of the landmarks so that no matter where in the area the plane is and which direction it's flying you know where the DZ is, where the obstacles to landing are, and eventually how to spot the plane yourself. Tandem progression has pros/cons. Personally I'm not a big fan just because it teaches students to hang on to ripcords and put legs on their butts as well as butt slide a landing... really bad habits for a non tandem skydiver. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #33 September 19, 2008 Quote My sister-in-law lives in Olympia. I may park myself at her house for a few days and get things done at Kapowsin. Disclaimer: I'm not an instructor, so this is all from my personal experience at the dropzones in question. If you do decide to go that route, make sure before you do that you talk to the folks at Snohomish about transitioning back into their student program after having completed AFF at Kapowsin. Don't make any assumptions as I know (from having been a student there) that the Snohomish program is pretty well structured and defined. I'm not saying that they wouldn't support an AFF to S/L transition, just make sure you have discussed how that might work, if you decide to make the switch. Personally, though, I think you're giving up on S/L far too easily. You've made one jump, and you have bruises that I (at 5'10") also had doing S/L. If you're not communicating well with a particular instructor, well, talk about working with different ones. Not everyone's going to click with all instructors. I haven't jumped at Snohomish for almost 3 years for a wide variety of reasons, and I tend to keep my mouth shut about it on the forums (keeping with mom's mantra of "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all"), but one thing I won't do is speak ill of the student program there - Snohomish runs what I consider to be a very strong program where the students are well-managed from start to finish. The program at Snohomish does a good job of laying out goals and objectives for both solo and coach jumps. This might be a good weekend to quit second guessing yourself and the dropzone on the forums and give jump 2 a try (assuming the weather's good... I wouldn't know, I live in sunny California now!). "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #34 September 20, 2008 Quote Also keeping your LEFT elbow against the forward upright of the door frame, will give you the leverage that it takes to intitiate the climb out..left hand on the strut, but left elbow against the door frame Just don't be surprised when you find bruises on your left elbow Hey - as has been said before, student gear fits most jumpers, but there are plenty of small girls who have survived oversized student gear, oversized rental gear, and more bruises than you could ever imagine (if i didn't have bruising after a weekend then i wasn't jumping). Someone mentioned over-analyzing, and that can happen - wanting to figure out what you did wrong is fine but don't try to analyze it to death. That also tends to come with "performance anxiety" mode and you end up doing yourself in because so much of this is mental and not just physical... i did that for a while on coach FS jumps and just didn't progress, got frustrated etc... then i timed out and did some solos to remind me it was meant to be fun and managed to relax a bit. I know it's easier said than done at the start, but it does come, and it will probably surprise you how soon it happens! Good luck!Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #35 September 20, 2008 Did she jump yet? Did she jump yet?What goes around, comes later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadiDadi 0 #36 September 20, 2008 She (meaning *me*) has not jumped yet. I was going to go down to Kapowsin on Friday and get sorted out for the AFF course but woke up with some kind of hellacious stomach bug and spent most of the day sleeping on the bathroom floor. I'm gross like that. Then I came to the realization last night that I am doing what I usually do - overanalyzing the fun right out of things. Normally this is a workable flaw in my brain but, upon the encouragement and wisdom of my dear ol' Daddy, I came to realize that overanalyzing skydiving can get me (in his words) 'severely killed'. Good point. He also pointed out that if I were to do AFF and get licensed and skilled and whatever else, there would always be that voice in the back of my head telling me that no matter what I have accomplished - I can NOT do a static line jump. So I woke up this morning, no longer ill, no longer afraid and went to get the phone to call and set up a jump for today. It's pouring rain outside. Damnit. I will do that static line jump. I will do it this week. I will hang on. I will arch. I will be like the cupcake and suck it up. I will NOT tear my arm off. I will report back here. I can't thank you all enough. I love my new virtual family!If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you. **************************** Be like the cupcake and suck it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #37 September 21, 2008 Good to hear that (except the stomach bug of course) - and your dad rocks!"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadiDadi 0 #38 September 21, 2008 My dad absolutely rocks. Without question. He's the one who told me when I was 4 years old that, no matter what he said to them, there was no way anyone was going to let me go off the jump towers at Ft. Benning but to just wait and be patient and some day... 30 years later, he's the one who set up my first skydive for me. I'd gone through phases over the years yammering for the chance and every time he nixed the idea. "No. Not there. Not now. Wait for the right time and the right place." The right time and the right place was March 1st, 2007 at Yuma Proving Grounds in Yuma, AZ. I made my first jump with my dad on the ground cheering me on and a Golden Knight strapped to my back. He was right. I would never have been able to do any of this if it weren't for him making me wait for the ultimate intro to this world. I also have gotten some amazing encouragement from my beloved Golden Knights. (if any of you read this - I'm 'the Colonel's daughter' - Sinor, that is...) Woo hoo! I should be jumping again on Thursday if the weather report is somewhat accurate. Yay!If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you. **************************** Be like the cupcake and suck it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LloydDobbler 2 #39 September 23, 2008 Quote I will be like the cupcake and suck it up. Best 'zen moment affirmation' I've heard on DZ.com so far... Have a good jump!Signatures are the new black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadiDadi 0 #40 September 23, 2008 Two jumps scheduled for Thursday - last static line and first supervised freefall. I just hope the weather holds so I don't have to postpone it any further. You know I'm going to be inching (more like 'millimetering') my way out on the wing repeating to myself over and over: BE the cupcake! BE the cupcake! BE the cupcake! (note the addition to the signature line)If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you. **************************** Be like the cupcake and suck it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #41 September 23, 2008 I am SO stealing your 'be the cupcake' line Keep us posted.... you can do this!!!!! Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #42 September 24, 2008 ...get serious. I won't sleep until you postjump reply, alive and running _____________ look - get - doWhat goes around, comes later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadiDadi 0 #43 September 24, 2008 peregrinerose, format, everyone else: YOU GUYS FUCKING ROCK!!! If I can sucker someone into coming with me, I'll get pictures.If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you. **************************** Be like the cupcake and suck it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #44 September 24, 2008 Is it Thursday yet? Good luck cupcake! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadiDadi 0 #45 September 24, 2008 Quote...get serious. I won't sleep until you postjump reply, Ummm... Yeah... How do you think I feel?!? Shitty thing is looking at the weather forecast is not making me think that it will happen on Thursday. I hate, hate, hate living in Seattle for sooooo many reasons! [edited because I'm an idiot]If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you. **************************** Be like the cupcake and suck it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tempest 0 #46 September 24, 2008 Hi One more thing to keep in mind is that the act of hanging on the strut is there to help with your presentation and not to prove how strong you are. If you get your hands into a good position on the strut, step off into the hanging position and then slip what is the problem? Seeing that the intention is to let go at some point the failure to hang on for an extended (or any) period of time is not a big issue. Too often students are scared to 'fall off', and this is especially relevant to smaller girls. Hanging on is not part of the success criteria for the jump - a stable exit is. If you slip just look up and arch. If you are ready for the possibility of a slip it is no big deal. As long as you arch and keep your head up you will have a good exit. My briefings to students include the question 'what if you slip?'. Most students think that that would constitute some kind of failure and result in a repeat of the jump. This is probably because we require the student to look at the instructor and say 'check in' before we give the exit command. The check is to ensure thea the instructor can ascertain the mental state of the student by looking at their eyes, keeps the student from looking down and helps the student focus on the task at hand. While a student should strive to do all of this it should not become a fixation. As you do more jumps and get more comfortable you will find the whole ordeal becoming much easier and you might even start enjoying it. My wife is of similar stature and had similar challenges. By the end of her static line progression there were no issues climbing out or hanging on, simply because she had figured out what technique worked for her and because she was more confident and assertive. After all that, just go out there and don't worry about falling off - it's just a quicker start to your skydive :-) Good luck Emile Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #47 September 24, 2008 One thing I would like to add to these excellent posts is that it is alright to ask your instructor to be sure and give you a boost as you go out and hang. (That's the instructor's job anyhow.) I would practice it in the plane while it is on the ground. With small students the instructor should help lift the container towards the strut. Also practice the poised exit from the step in case you feel that you cannot hang. (You can--the prop blast will help you.) Regardless where you exit keep your head up and your pelvis into the wind so that you watch the plane as you fall away from it. Your exits will improve, just keep with it."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ksudiver87 0 #48 September 25, 2008 I would just like for you to know it is possible, it is fun, and it is worth it. I'm 5'1" , 105lbs and could barely walk with the 40lbs of student gear. When putting your left hand on the strut, put it as close to the door as possible, this will cut down on wind resistance, stay crouched down, and inch out. No matter what happens off the strut..ARCH! Countless numbers of small women jumpers have survived student status, bruises and all, I have no doubt that you will as well ~Always do stupid things safely~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #49 September 25, 2008 Have fun "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 613 #50 September 25, 2008 "No matter what happens off the strut..ARCH " ...................................................................... Good point! Who cares about the finer points of the climb out or how long you hung from the strut. The pass-fail criteria is whether you exited stable. That means belly-into-the-wind and arched. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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