When buying used how many jumps is too many?

[hudsonderek 0]

when buying a used ZP canopy how many jumps is too many? I've heard line sets should be replaced after about 500 jumps and there are a lot of great deals for ZP canopies that have more than a 1000 jumps, why the sudden devaluing after 1000 jumps? if the line sets are recently new do these canopies not perform near what they did new? are they beginning to be unsafe at this point?

[skybytch 259]

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why the sudden devaluing after 1000 jumps?

The old $1 per jump thing. If you can buy a new one for $1300 then one with 1000 jumps on it is worth about $300.

Whether it's unsafe or not depends a lot on how you define unsafe, where the canopy was jumped and how it was cared for. If it spent most of it's life in a dusty environment or if it spent a lot of time sitting in the sun waiting to be packed, the fabric is more likely to be weakened than if it was kept out of the sun (sunlight is nylon's #1 enemy) and/or jumped in a less dusty environment.

[rhys 0]

Hi,

I purchased a xfire 1 with 1000 jumps on it for $400. I put 800 jumps on it and wen ground launching on it and sold it for $350.

If you are buying over the net it is more of a gamble but if you get to inspect the canopy first you should be able to tell simply by lookling at it how well it has been looked after.

I am selling a canopy fpr my partner at the moment and it has over 1000 jumps, it still opens, flies and lands well. but it has been packed indoors, and well0 looked after. Another canopy with less jumps but packed outdoors and left in the sun while the owner has a ciggie and lunch (or an AFF instructors rig) would not be in very good condition at all.

So I guess the moral of my experiences is you can get a really good canopy that has 1000 jumps on it or you can get a piece of shit.

don't pay more than $500 though

Good luck

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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when buying a used ZP canopy how many jumps is too many? I've heard line sets should be replaced after about 500 jumps and there are a lot of great deals for ZP canopies that have more than a 1000 jumps, why the sudden devaluing after 1000 jumps? if the line sets are recently new do these canopies not perform near what they did new? are they beginning to be unsafe at this point?

There are 1200 jumps on my Stiletto 120 (600 from the original owner, 600 from me). It's fine apart from needing its third line set and the neon yellow center cell being dirty from packing.

Other people have 3000 jumps on their canopies.

As long as the parachute was packed inside and didn't spend its life someplace dusty like Arizona you should get a lot more life out of it.

[dragon2 0]

We have some stilettos and sabres here with thousands of jumps on them. You can get really good deals on canopies with 700+ jumps on them

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[darkwing 4]

The details of the jumps on it matter more than the number of jumps. 1000 jumps in the desert in the south is a lot worse on a canopy than 1000 jumps in green grass up north. Two major reasons - exposure to sunlight, and exposure to abrasive sand...

Other issues, was it packed on carpet or grass or dirt? Was it ever in the ocean....?

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[BillyVance 34]

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why the sudden devaluing after 1000 jumps?

The old $1 per jump thing. If you can buy a new one for $1300 then one with 1000 jumps on it is worth about $300.

Whether it's unsafe or not depends a lot on how you define unsafe, where the canopy was jumped and how it was cared for. If it spent most of it's life in a dusty environment or if it spent a lot of time sitting in the sun waiting to be packed, the fabric is more likely to be weakened than if it was kept out of the sun (sunlight is nylon's #1 enemy) and/or jumped in a less dusty environment.

And don't the ZP coating wear off to some effect over time?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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And don't the ZP coating wear off to some effect over time?

Nope - you still can't blow through it and it flies the same provided that the line set is good.

Two things do happen which only affect packing:

1. The ZP slick disappears from the outside of the fabric so it's as easy to handle as F111.

2. The stitching holes open up so it's easier to squeeze air out.

My Stiletto 120 with a 135 bag is my _favorite_ canopy to pack by far. You can stick it in the bag with one hand, leave it there, and close the bag at your leisure.

The tail end of the center cell top skin definitely wears from packing and the slider gets some wear (I think from pulling it through the canopy end of the daisy chain) but it flies fine and passes the thumb-test in the worn areas.

[fcajump 153]

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And don't the ZP coating wear off to some effect over time?

Nope - you still can't blow through it and it flies the same provided that the line set is good.

Two things do happen which only affect packing:

1. The ZP slick disappears from the outside of the fabric so it's as easy to handle as F111.

2. The stitching holes open up so it's easier to squeeze air out.

My Stiletto 120 with a 135 bag is my _favorite_ canopy to pack by far. You can stick it in the bag with one hand, leave it there, and close the bag at your leisure.

The tail end of the center cell top skin definitely wears from packing and the slider gets some wear (I think from pulling it through the canopy end of the daisy chain) but it flies fine and passes the thumb-test in the worn areas.

Going on the theory that every thing has a limit, and that either the performance will dictate the limit or the structure will. F-111 used to be retired for lack of performance, if in fact ZP holds its performance, than eventually age will retire them in other ways...

...I suspect that we will, in the next few years, start seeing main canopy failures (during deployment) that will teach us what the effective ZP life is...

Remember, when the top of the center cell is missing, along with your pilot chute and D-bag, "is it controllable, is it landable?"

Let me know how many licks your canopy takes to get to the center...

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[billvon 2,473]

>Nope - you still can't blow through it and it flies the same . . .

Not really true. PD did a study of older ZP canopy fabric on canopies that had been returned to them a while back, and some of it was getting quite porous after a few thousand jumps. IIRC, a few of the canopies were over 3 CFM in some areas.

[hackish 8]

I think the condition says a lot. You can get your local neighbourhood rigger to do a full canopy inspection. Some canopies with 1000 jumps on them look practically new, others belong in the trash.

Also on the line replacement issue some lines last longer than others so don't "assume" canopy X will need a reline after Y jumps. Have the trim checked and again look at the condition. 400lb microlines will wear out much faster than something stronger/larger.

-Michael

[jurgencamps 0]

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As long as the parachute was packed inside and didn't spend its life someplace dusty like Arizona you should get a lot more life out of it.

X-mas 2000, Eloy. A local freefly instructor enters the hangar with his canopy (with 3 broken lines) and says "this canopy is death". He explains that the canopy (x-fire 2) has more than 6000 jumps.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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>Nope - you still can't blow through it and it flies the same . . .

Not really true. PD did a study of older ZP canopy fabric on canopies that had been returned to them a while back, and some of it was getting quite porous after a few thousand jumps. IIRC, a few of the canopies were over 3 CFM in some areas.

Do we have specifics - # of jumps, jumping conditions (grass vs. desert), how the wear areas would affect performance (side-packing puts wear on the end-cell ribs which can be F111 without performance degradation)?

Were these condemned canopies or ones PD sent back to customers? PD has failed the tear test on some 2000 jump canopies and relined one 10,000+ jump saber for free so they can track it and see how far it'll go.