unformed 0 #1 April 19, 2007 so i took my car in cuz my brakes were grinding. the mechanic said i have a leak in the cylinder which is causing the hydraulic system to fail and it'll cost me about $1200 to fix. does this sound excessive as if i'm getting screwed?This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #2 April 19, 2007 Absolutely. What kind of car?? And did you take it to a "Just Brakes"?? They are the absolute worst when it comes to rip offs. They were actually Banned from several states because of thier deceptive and fraudulent practices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #3 April 19, 2007 it's an '01 Cherokee. I took it to Merlin's. They've been grinding for a few weeks now, so I know there's some damage done. The guy said there's a leak in the cylinder and some other stuff....This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #4 April 19, 2007 Ok mechanic 101 stuff 1) Grinding is bad, usually means you're destroying what ever components are making the noise. Fix Immediately. 2) most leaks become visible quickly, you should be able to see spots in your driveway and/or on your vehicle 3) leaks dont cause systems to fail, the absence of fluid causes systems to fail. no matter how bit the leak, IF you can keep the fluid at the proper level, it wont fail. in your case the "brake grinding noise" is most likely due to your brake pads or shoes no longer have any braking material left on them. so, your griding the piece that held that material (metal) against the rotor or drum (metal). Generally causing an expensive failure. But really costs for parts alone should be similar to this: brake pads (per set) $ 25-45 Rotors (per wheel) 45-75 master cylinder (non anti-lock brakes) 75-175 there are a slew of other parts that could be "leaking" or "griding", but what ive discussed above is the most common cause of a grinding noise. You could also have a leaking brake caliper or cylinder (depending on if its disc or drum brakes, respectively). There are repair kits for most of them, but a replacment is a better idea. A caliper could cost you as much as 150-225 depending on supplier. Mind you all of this is just, round about figures. I used to work in a shop, and I still do most of my major auto maintenance. Most shops are above $60 per hour for labor now too. 1200 for what you described is most likely a highway robbery.Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taylor610 0 #5 April 19, 2007 Set of pads price around $50.00 If you have screwed the rotors, they will be around $40.00 each. They are saying you have a leak...do you see brake fluid on the ground or cement where you park your car? If you don't you probably don't have a leak. Is your brake "mushy" when you step on it and/or do you need to "pump" the pedal to have good brake pedal pressure? If not, then you are definitely getting a jacked up price.Brakes are not that hard to put on, I do my own and it doesn't require any "special" tools and takes about an hour to do the front or the back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taylor610 0 #6 April 19, 2007 Good info...Hey our prices even came in pretty close!Hippy's garage...may I help you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #7 April 19, 2007 Get a second opinion. Chain Brake shops will almost always try to upsell you repairs you do not need. If the cylinder is really leaking.. Get it looked at immediately. Just to give you an idea of the Real costs involved: Brake Pads: $30 NEW Aftermarket Rotors: $41ea (Total $82) Driver side caliper - $35 Passenger side Caliper - $35 (Both Calipers have a $18 core charge so you will get $36 back if you return the old calipers to the store) Say 2 Hours Labor at $90 per hour -$180 Toss in a $20 Shop Supply Charge.. Now if is the master Cylinder that is leaking.. ($59 for a rebuilt Master Cylinder from Autozone BTW) Labor may cost a little more. Sounds like they are really trying to take you for a ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #8 April 19, 2007 Easy way to find out: get additional estimates from other shops. Elvisio "works like a charm" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #9 April 19, 2007 You must be really bored today. You actually did the shopping for him! I just guessed. Oh, and IMHO if you replace one caliper, replace them BOTH! In older vehicles you could get into a situation where it would pull to one side or the other if you only replace one. and J is right on with the labor. i think I could make that repair happen in a shop environment (lift, pneumatic tools, etc) in about an hour. In a good shop that means you just got paid for two hours, in one. also IF the rotors are salvageable (most are not if you hear griding) you could have them turned for around 20 per side. Thats just as good as new then. Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #10 April 19, 2007 Okay, I just called him back. He said it's the cylinder that's leaking (I believe he said it was the master earlier) and needs replacing. And the pads and shoes need replacing along with the brake hardware. I told him to hold off the other work for now. Everything's already been torn down so I'll get this stuff done and then take it to another shop I found reviewed on cartalk.com and get their opinion. What would the expected price be on clinder, hardware, shoes, pads? (This is Chicago so I understand that labor and cost are going to be a bit more expensive).This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #11 April 19, 2007 Quote Okay, I just called him back. He said it's the cylinder that's leaking (I believe he said it was the master earlier) and needs replacing. -------------------------------------------- Thats odd. Usually they just begin to fail (an internal issue) I dont know that I've ever seen one leak to the outside without someone damaging it first. Plus, if hes talking about it leaking internally, he'd have NO way of checkng that properly without removing the compent and putting it on a pressure bench (no one does this except the reman companies) PLUS since they've 'torn down' everything he cant even do a pedal test to see if it has the right "feel" (sorry but it really is all about how the pedal feels) ------------------------------------------- And the pads and shoes need replacing along with the brake hardware. ----------------------------------------------- Pads and shoes? That means your have disc brakes up front and drum brakes in the rear. These NEVER need to be replaced simutaneously. NEVER. This is because the system is proportion from front to rear. Imagine if you will equal pressure was applied to all 4 weels, so, when the center of gravity shifts forward (as it does when you brake) and you slam on the brakes your rear wheels would lock up. In a non-towing situation I'd expect your drum brakes to last 80 to 100k miles. Youre geeting boned most likely. ------------------------------- Everything's already been torn down so I'll get this stuff done and then take it to another shop I found reviewed on cartalk.com and get their opinion. -------------------------------- mechanics use this excuse so often. Why would they spend the labor to do such a thing when most of the repair can be determined my visual inspection alone? They dont. If no parts are installed, tell em to put it back togeter, and to stuff their "inspection" charge up their asses. --------------------------------- What would the expected price be on clinder, hardware, shoes, pads? (This is Chicago so I understand that labor and cost are going to be a bit more expensive). --------------------------------- Different markets bear different labor rates, but even in Chicago anything over 120/hr means your gettin prison love on your first day in. Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #12 April 19, 2007 Quote Quote Okay, I just called him back. He said it's the cylinder that's leaking (I believe he said it was the master earlier) and needs replacing. -------------------------------------------- Thats odd. Usually they just begin to fail (an internal issue) I dont know that I've ever seen one leak to the outside without someone damaging it first. Plus, if hes talking about it leaking internally, he'd have NO way of checkng that properly without removing the compent and putting it on a pressure bench (no one does this except the reman companies) PLUS since they've 'torn down' everything he cant even do a pedal test to see if it has the right "feel" (sorry but it really is all about how the pedal feels) ------------------------------------------- I don't know about the cylinder. He took it for a test drive, called me to tell me what was wrong, which I said ok, go ahead, and then I posted here and called back about an later at which point everything as tore down since they started working on it. Quote And the pads and shoes need replacing along with the brake hardware. ----------------------------------------------- Pads and shoes? That means your have disc brakes up front and drum brakes in the rear. These NEVER need to be replaced simutaneously. NEVER. This is because the system is proportion from front to rear. Imagine if you will equal pressure was applied to all 4 weels, so, when the center of gravity shifts forward (as it does when you brake) and you slam on the brakes your rear wheels would lock up. In a non-towing situation I'd expect your drum brakes to last 80 to 100k miles. Youre geeting boned most likely. ------------------------------- I may very well be getting screwed. When he said what was happening, he said something along the lines of: The leak is disintegrating the drums in the rear (or maybe the disc in the front) so the other ones were taking the brunt of the pressure and were wearing down quicker. Quote Everything's already been torn down so I'll get this stuff done and then take it to another shop I found reviewed on cartalk.com and get their opinion. -------------------------------- mechanics use this excuse so often. Why would they spend the labor to do such a thing when most of the repair can be determined my visual inspection alone? They dont. If no parts are installed, tell em to put it back togeter, and to stuff their "inspection" charge up their asses. well, i really should have posted here before i gave the go-ahead. Quote What would the expected price be on clinder, hardware, shoes, pads? (This is Chicago so I understand that labor and cost are going to be a bit more expensive). --------------------------------- Different markets bear different labor rates, but even in Chicago anything over 120/hr means your gettin prison love on your first day in. it's 79 an hour for brake and muffler work, 89 an hour for everything else. overall i don't really know ...This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #13 April 19, 2007 OK, with that " leak in the rear was disintegrating everything in the rear" yes, if you get a wheel cylinder leak it will make a damn mess, replace the shoes (now ya gotta do both sides), turn the drums, and maybe the hardware (springs, keepers, etc) A leak in the front would have been very noticable as the vehicle would have been pulling to the left or right, and it will have to fixed right now. That labor rate isnt too bad. Good luck to ya!Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #14 April 19, 2007 Yeah, wheel cylinder. that's what he said. I really need to learn this stuff. thanks ....This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #15 April 19, 2007 QuoteYeah, wheel cylinder. that's what he said. I really need to learn this stuff. thanks .... anytime!Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #16 April 19, 2007 I dont know where my post i just did ewent off too, but i gues i'll try again with something different. Quote 79 an hour for brake and muffler work, 89 an hour for everything else. that isn't that bad. i think I pay 86-90/hr @ a specialist or $140 dealership.--------------------- I would guess your work should really be 6-700$ if some things other than breaks really need to be replaced. If you want PM me and i'll try to find out what place I know others to take their jeeps to that they are happy with. *edit - that estimate was before you said wheel cylinder. how much of your estimate is labor? Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #17 April 19, 2007 it was 1200 for everything above plus hydraulics and rotors ... with just the cylinders, pads, shoes, and hardware, its about 700. i don't know how much of that is labor.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #18 April 19, 2007 So here I sit as a Master Mechanic reading this thread and as usual giggling to myself at some of the responces.......thanks for the yuks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #19 April 19, 2007 Do you have a written estimate I can see? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #20 April 19, 2007 any time. Im only a shade tree mech. ive not turned wrenches for aliving in about 10 years, and I was NEVER a 'master'! Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mx757 4 #21 April 19, 2007 your getting screwed on the $1200 even $ 700 for parts is REALLY ON THE HIGH SIDE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #22 April 19, 2007 Same way I sit here as a Master asshole laughing at what Some Mechanics try to get away with. Last couple conversation I had with "Master mechanics" at shop where I took my car when I didn’t have time to deal with myself... were beyond hilarious.. Sorry but $1,200 for a 2 to 3 hour job that just about any reasonably intelligent monkey could do is nuts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #23 April 19, 2007 Have you seen the vehicle? have you? then you know shit....stop talking out your asshole. I have not seen the vehicle either...but I do know one thing...its not hard to put together a $1200 estimate on a neglected vehicle....and considering the OP drove it with grinding brakes for 2 weeks.......well you figure it out sherlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #24 April 19, 2007 I would dearly love to see a written estimate.....I can tell alot from it. were you taken out to your vehicle and shown what was wrong?....cant do that with all things but it is easy to show a customer brakes that are metal to metal. or a leaking wheel cylinder and contaninated shoes etc. When ever possible I show the customer what I have found on there vehicle....and let them know what is required and what is reccomended....we even print out our estimates like that... I actually work in what we call the "fish bowl" ...my bays are right next to the customer waiting area...nice glass wall....on ocassion I will even do a little dance for the ones starring at me ... get me info...I can give real advise Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #25 April 19, 2007 Quote then you know shit....stop talking out your asshole. Thank you sir for your educated accessment of qualifications.Bottom line.. This shit happens all the time. Brake Places are the WORST about this sort of thing. You are correct I havent seen the estimate.. but driving with the brakes grinding for Two weeks usually mean new Rotors.. So add an extra $100 and extra 10 Minutes to change them while changing the pads.. P.S. No I am not an ASE Mechanic.. Just a measly IE that worked in Industrial Maintenance for 15 years designing and building manufacturing equipment. But growing up.. Between My Fathers Race Teams and My Mothers Dealerships.. I just might have been around a shop or two. OH.... And then were those 10 years I raced myself building my own cars.You dont need a ASE cert to understand a brake system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
