BIGUN 1,229 #1 August 21, 2007 Got off the plane a little after midnite and was still wound up from being up 36 hours, so I went to a casino and the only thing open at two in the morning was a 1/2 table with $200.00 max buy-in. Easy enough table and within an hour and a half of aggressive play am up to $800.00 Dealt an Ace & 10 of Diamonds. Sitting in the small blind Pre-flop betting is normal - five bucks around the table. Big Blind calls five. Flop comes Diamond/Ace/Diamond (four Diamonds to me with the Ace high in the hole). Board checks around as do I. Big Blind next to me punches $100.00 Obviously has or is representing trip Aces - so you have to assume it is. Table bows out - gets to me - I'm up $600.00, so I think it's worth the call. Turn comes - 5 of Spades , no help to me so I check it, Big blind goes another $100.00 - Definately has trip Aces - I call. River turn and it's a diamond - Ace high flush to me - got him! Push him all-in $200.00 and he calls. As soon as he calls I look at the board and realize - DAMMIT it's a five of diamonds; pairing the board and giving him the boat. So focused on seeing the Diamond, that I forget to hit the pause button and analyze the board before making the all-in move. $400.00 mistake. But, do you think I remember the other rule of - when you make a mistake like that; you should take a break and gather your thoughts - hell no... I conitnue to plow into them being aggressive, but now I've lost the momentum and they're all callng to the river... (one of the reasons I hate 1/2 and prefer 5/10 or 10/20). Lesson reinforced: Hit the pause button and analyze the board before you push someone all-in. Final rule - not good to start playing a Hold'em money game after being up 36 hours.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #2 August 21, 2007 Definately Not a Bad beat.. He was waaaaaaay ahead every step of the way. (On the Flop, You only had a 28% of drawing a better hand. Definately did not have Pot odds to make the $100 call on the Flop (Cost $100 to win $130 (assuming 6 callers preflop) not counting the implied odds), The $100 Call on the Turn was a little better as your were getting a little over 2 to 1 ($100 to win $230) on your money.. Still a bad bet as you were over a 5 to 1 dog at that point (18% Chance of winning). Chasing will bite almost every time. Do the math, and only chase when you get the pot odds to do so. The last call was really the least of your problems.. You should not have been there on the river to make that mistake if you put him on a set of Aces. I am sure you have been on the other side of that at some point too.. You pick up AA, Flop a set and then you see that flush draw and know that fish is going to chase it all the way. That 5d on the river was a dream card for the guy with his set. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 August 21, 2007 Quote Got off the plane a little after midnite and was still wound up from being up 36 hours, so I went to a casino and the only thing open at two in the morning was a 1/2 table with $200.00 max buy-in. Easy enough table and within an hour and a half of aggressive play am up to $800.00 Dealt an Ace & 10 of Diamonds. Sitting in the small blind Pre-flop betting is normal - five bucks around the table. Big Blind calls five. Flop comes Diamond/Ace/Diamond (four Diamonds to me with the Ace high in the hole). Board checks around as do I. Big Blind next to me punches $100.00 Obviously has or is representing trip Aces - so you have to assume it is. Table bows out - gets to me - I'm up $600.00, so I think it's worth the call. Turn comes - 5 of Spades , no help to me so I check it, Big blind goes another $100.00 - Definately has trip Aces - I call. ******TILT******River turn and it's a diamond - Ace high flush to me - got him! Push him all-in $200.00 and he calls. As soon as he calls I look at the board and realize - DAMMIT it's a five of diamonds; pairing the board and giving him the boat. So focused on seeing the Diamond, that I forget to hit the pause button and analyze the board before making the all-in move. $400.00 mistake. But, do you think I remember the other rule of - when you make a mistake like that; you should take a break and gather your thoughts - hell no... I conitnue to plow into them being aggressive, but now I've lost the momentum and they're all callng to the river... (one of the reasons I hate 1/2 and prefer 5/10 or 10/20). Lesson reinforced: Hit the pause button and analyze the board before you push someone all-in. Final rule - not good to start playing a Hold'em money game after being up 36 hours. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,229 #4 August 21, 2007 Yup... You're both right. Hence, the title "stupid" beat instead of bad beat. I know better. He was 84.9% to win pre-flop. But, sometimes the gambler in me comes out... I hate that guy Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #5 August 21, 2007 Keith! WTF, dude???? Diamonds are a GIRL'S best friend. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #6 August 21, 2007 Quote sometimes the gambler in me comes out... I hate that guy I got one of those too. He really like Craps. I mean REALLY likes Craps. I used to joke with the pit bosses at the craps tables that they should pay me for relocating so much cash from the Poker room to the craps tables for them. Go sit and Grind for 10 Hours, Be waaay up, Run to the Craps table, Play for an hour and loose it almost all and then have to go back to the Poker room and take the couple hundred I have left and use it to get more money so I could come back and give it to the craps table again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,229 #7 August 21, 2007 I was feeling moody and insecure - I needed a hug and the dealer threw something shiney at me. I knew I could rely on my fellow skydivers to kick me in the nuts for reinforcement. Keep it up... Maybe next time I'll remember this spanking before making a dumbass move like that. Actually, if someone could kick the shit out of that gambler persona living inside me that takes over; I'd appreciate it. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,229 #8 August 21, 2007 Or the internal logical guy who spoke softly and told me to get up and cash it in when I was up to 800 bucks only for the loud mouth gambler inner voice guy to bitch slap logic guy and tell him, "NO! you dumbfuck, you're up to $800, sit down, shut the fuck up and take it to a grand before you leave." That's usually when the bleeding starts and that was the VERY NEXT hand. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #9 August 21, 2007 Quote Definately Not a Bad beat.. He was waaaaaaay ahead every step of the way. (On the Flop, You only had a 28% of drawing a better hand. Definately did not have Pot odds to make the $100 call on the Flop (Cost $100 to win $130 (assuming 6 callers preflop) not counting the implied odds), The $100 Call on the Turn was a little better as your were getting a little over 2 to 1 ($100 to win $230) on your money.. Still a bad bet as you were over a 5 to 1 dog at that point (18% Chance of winning). Chasing will bite almost every time. Do the math, and only chase when you get the pot odds to do so. The last call was really the least of your problems.. You should not have been there on the river to make that mistake if you put him on a set of Aces. I am sure you have been on the other side of that at some point too.. You pick up AA, Flop a set and then you see that flush draw and know that fish is going to chase it all the way. That 5d on the river was a dream card for the guy with his set. May gumbo dogface to the banana patch? You guys slay me with this stuff __ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #10 August 21, 2007 Ahhh...so sorry, sugar-bear. Next time, just take a nap instead! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,229 #11 August 21, 2007 Did you not read the thread?!!? I WAS napping... asleep at the wheel when the crash occured Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #12 August 21, 2007 Quote Actually, if someone could kick the shit out of that gambler persona living inside me that takes over; I'd appreciate it. So are you saying you want a spanking? Better find that safe wordMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,229 #13 August 22, 2007 WoooooooHOOOOOOOO!!! Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #14 August 22, 2007 You'd better get another safe word...you're going to be screaming "WoooooooHOOOOOOOO!!!" right from the beginning. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,229 #15 August 22, 2007 Pssstt... Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_woosh 0 #16 August 22, 2007 ok, so tell me guys r u seriously managing to calculate all those probabilities with .1% precision in those few seconds before you have to act? if so is there a trick to calculate it fast? or do you just remember them or do you just reflect on it after the game trying to figure out what the exact probabilities were? pardon my ignorance but I've been playing poker for just over 3 weeks and I barely have time to guess what i should do, not to mention trying to figure out exact numbers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,229 #17 August 22, 2007 Well, there's plenty of books on the strategies of position, betting (pre-flop, Flop, turn, river - when to bet the pot, when to bet double or triple the pot), how many are left after the pre-flop or flop bet, how many are behind me, button raises, how to play the blinds, etc. There's two types of play - one is below the rail (the cards), the other is above the rail (your opponents and your position). It's just like learning to skydive - First you learn some basic survival skills, then you start building on that knowledge and then suddenly everything starts coming together... where you'll combine below the rail and above the rail into a total dive flow. But, the foundation to beginning is to know what's a good starting hand. Here's a good site to start memorizing the pre-flop starting hands and probabilities of winning... http://www.holdemsecrets.com/startinghands.htm In the top right corner are some additonal links to review. At first, you're going to be playing below the rail (cards only). Be prepared to muck A LOT. When you muck, observe the other players play. Look at where they're sitting in relation to the button, how many people are behind them, what they bet, how they bet, non-verbal communication can be a tell or they could be feigning a less than lackluster hand to suck someone in... Just as with Chess, it takes a lot of time, a lot of games and a lot of learning the strategies to get good. And, be prepared to lose. The worst thing you can do is play with scared money. Have floors and ceilings - If I get down to this, I'm done. If I get up to this, I'm done. If you're going to play in the free on-line games, please understand that most people are just throwing money at the pot and you're not going to get the same people or dynamic as you would in a casino with real money. At the 2/5 or 5/10 or 10/20 tables, there is a completely different and more professional dynamic than the 1/2 (where the tendency is to chase the river). It's definately a love/hate relationship. I hated the dumbass mistake I made the other day and should have walked away. I went last night and made 150% (ceiling) of my $1,000 buy-in... took me ten hours. Patience. If the gambler dude comes out - bitch slap him. Play what you have not what you "think" or "hope" is going to come. The probability goes way down after the flop on the "hope to comes." Sometimes they do and you'll have thrown away the winning hand... anyone who says they haven't thrown away a winner hasn't been playing long. Good luck. EDIT: And don't ever show your cards unless you HAVE to. I see a lot of people so proud of their hands that they roll them too much and give free information. Even if I won with quads or boat, if there were no callers, they go into the muck pile. Make 'em pay to see it. If someone asks me if I'll show if they muck, I tell them I show if they pay for the priviledge. And don't get all chatty with the other players (they're still trying to get free informaton - could you beat two pair, were my KK's any good, could you beat eights on the flop, would you have called a hundred dollars on the flop?)... you're not there to make friends, you're there to win and take their money.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #18 August 22, 2007 Here area couple of very simple and basic ways to start calculating odds.. (Not always 100% accurate but a good general rule of thumb) 1) Rule of 4 (On the Flop with two cards to come) Count the number of cards that will help you (outs) multiply it by four. This gives your percentage chance of making youy hand. Example: You flop an Open Straight Draw: 8 Outs (8x4=32), 32% chance you will get there. 2) Rule of 2.2 (One the Turn with one card to come) Count your outs and multiply by 2.2. Get the percentage chance of catching one of those outs on the river. Same example: Open Straight Draw (8 Outs) on the turn (8x2.2= 17%) chance of Hitting it on the river. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_woosh 0 #19 August 22, 2007 thanks for you replies people! I am reading a couple of books now to try and actually play instead of just throwing money in when I feel like it :D and I do fold a lot trying to be extra careful as my budget is very limited at this point (and I already figured out that free games are no good as people do whatever as they are not risking anything). play mostly at pokerstars. started at .02/.04 :D now trying myself at .5/1.. made an expensive mistake of trying a 3/6 about 10 days ago.. definitely not ready yet :D but yeah I was always amazed at people always talking about probabilities up to a .1% precision and was always wondering if there are any shortcuts for calculation or do you just have to memorize stuff. so I really appreciate the two rules in the previous post! if there are any more tricks like this they'd be greatly appreciated :D see you guys at the turney tomorrow! oh, btw how long does it take for an average guy to get decent at poker? and how do people make their living playing this game as in all these three weeks I barely saw anyone at pokerstars making any significant money (relative to the stakes of course). looks like people fluctuate around the original buy in a lot with rare exceptions Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #20 August 22, 2007 ive been playing for 4 months. I play live about three times a week. I placed third 2 weeks ago in a Multi table $300 buy in with 185 players. According to my ladbrokes stats i have won 49% of all the games i have played on line with them and at pkr.com i was 7th on the multi table leaderboard last week. all my games online are sit'n'gos and all my live games are cash games apart from a few MTT tourneys. I think it depends the head on your shoulders for how long it takes to get any good. I think of myself as an okay player, as far as cash games go i do alot better playing tourneys as i find myself to be a some what aggresive player. In most tourneys i like to sit back for a fair few hands as i find alot of people go all in trying to get stacked up too fast. Experienced poker players laugh at my favourite hand but it has been a hand that i guess i have had a lot of luck with and that is 8 9. Jacks always let me down where and queens have always been good to me. the other day i was bluffing alot on one table, all part of the plan, then i got pocket aces .. the flop was A9A and i checked it, someone raised $100, i re- raised and three people called me, on the turn he first guy bet $400 and then i went all in $700, all three guys called me. they showed 10 10, K K and 9J they all showed first, guy with kings had a set and jumped up yelling how happy he was i then turned over my aces! My biggest win to date. I started on the table with $80 as it was $80 to sit down at with $80 to top up. I was down about 3 buy ins and turned my third in to $800 then into my quad aces win. Stayed for a few hands and then went home very stoked. So been playing a few months and doing alright i think. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #21 August 22, 2007 I'll tell you what a bad beat is: I have pocket 4s. I raise triple the BB. Three players call. Flop goes 2 4 5, giving me trips. One guy raises 300, I push all in. He calls with J 3. Guess what, an ace shows on the river. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #22 August 22, 2007 I wouldnt call that a bad beat. He may have had A3 there for all you know when you see a possible staright draw on the board. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #23 August 23, 2007 On-line sucks... Pocket 10s Flop: 10, 10, 3 connection lost. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #24 August 23, 2007 Note from Kim: Hey! Glad I got to meet you and Gary and make some new friends. Come see me in GA. How did the bid in Mississippi come out? Still no A license...WTF. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #25 August 23, 2007 Quote On-line sucks... Pocket 10s Flop: 10, 10, 3 connection lost. I don't trust the internet connection at the farm. Too slow. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
