uogiene 0 #1 March 23, 2006 Hey, can you please advise me on what size javelin container to get to accommodate my PD193 bearing in mind that my geared up weight is 175pounds max, I was looking to get either J3 or J4, I'm not expecting to have my reserve any larger than 150... Would j3 fit nice PD193 7cell main with 150 reserve? thanks for help everyone and blue skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #2 March 23, 2006 QuoteWould j3 fit nice PD193 7cell main with 150 reserve? A J3 will hold up to a PD160R/Raven I or equivalent reserve; I'd suggest going with that instead of a 150. The main would fit fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimblair13 0 #3 March 23, 2006 http://www.sunpath.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uogiene 0 #4 March 23, 2006 Quotehttp://www.sunpath.com/ well if wanted to ask the manufacturer's website I would have asked, I've also checked sizing chart prior to this post ( http://www.sunpath.com/Legacy_sizchart.htm ) this was the reason why I've started this thread in the first place, but thanks for your suggestion anyway... it was a little weird for me that main canopy difference between j3 and j4 is 40sqf whiles in other container types main canopy size that can be accommodated is only 20sqf so when I thought that I won't be using suggested 176reserve on j4 I wanted for an advise if I can go ahead with j3 and smaller reserve...btw I believe same size 7cell canopy would take less space than 9cell, I'm I wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #5 March 23, 2006 PD does not make a 193 main in 7 cell or 9 cell. They have a 190 and 210 Spectre. I would suggest you go with a bigger reserve, maybe a PD-176R. Even then you are above what they recommend for your experience level. Why the rush to go small. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #6 March 23, 2006 Quote PD does not make a 193 main in 7 cell or 9 cell. Think all F111 7 cell. Dunno if they are still available new but they are available used. PD also makes 193 sq ft Lightnings in all F111, all zp and zp topskin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 March 23, 2006 The J3 and J4 will not pack safely with a 150 sized reserve. And when you ask for advice on this website, it's bad form to be rude to those that offer it. If the Sunpath website says that the canopy won't or doesn't fit the containt, you probably ought to pay attention.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinghonu 0 #8 March 23, 2006 QuoteThe J3 and J4 will not pack safely with a 150 sized reserve. And when you ask for advice on this website, it's bad for to be rude to those that offer it. If the Sunpath website says that the canopy won't or doesn't fit the containt, you probably ought to pay attention. You might also thinking about taking the advice of the poster to whom you were rude. I wanted to put a larger main in a container that the website said would be too small for it. Contacted the manufacturer and they said that the main would be ok in the container but may cause premature wear, etc. Do not take this as advice - contact the manufacturer, they will know best as to what goes in what container and what the results will be. As for the size, well you have coaches/instructors for a reason. "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uogiene 0 #9 March 23, 2006 Sorry if I sounded rude, I still haven't got an answer for myself with regards to the manufacturers suggestions I believe that it's worth hearing riggers opinions as well... Thanks everyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #10 March 23, 2006 Why people insist on buying tiny containers and trying to cram big canopies in them is beyond my comprehension. People often "shop" for opinions here, this is an example. Hot tip: Buy a container that fits your canopies... that's why they are offered in different sizes. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimblair13 0 #11 March 23, 2006 Quote Why people insist on buying tiny containers and trying to cram big canopies in them is beyond my comprehension Because it's cool, duh! I know I want my reserve to be so tightly crammed into the reserve container, that when I pull the ripcord it won't come out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #12 March 23, 2006 QuoteSorry if I sounded rude, I still haven't got an answer for myself with regards to the manufacturers suggestions I believe that it's worth hearing riggers opinions as well... Thanks everyone What kind of answer are you looking for, one that would go against the "manufactures suggestions"? Since they are the ones that design and build the product they probably will provide you with the best answer. And that is a riggers opinion. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinghonu 0 #13 March 23, 2006 QuoteWhy people insist on buying tiny containers and trying to cram big canopies in them is beyond my comprehension. People often "shop" for opinions here, this is an example. Hot tip: Buy a container that fits your canopies... that's why they are offered in different sizes. Well for me it's b/c I'm 5'1"/120 lbs. and as a novice, needed a container that would fit a large enough canopy but not fall off of me in freefall and clear my ass enough so that I could arch appropriately. "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #14 March 23, 2006 Rig size will not prevent a proper arch, i.e. pushing your hips forward. Maybe if the harness is too small, but not too big... The military routinely uses huge containers with 370+sq ft canopies. I've also seen people of your size jump containers that hold 253s and 260s... they all seemed to be able to arch and turn points just fine and they didn't have any more jumps than you.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snafuhere 0 #15 March 23, 2006 QuotePeople often "shop" for opinions here, this is an example. Hot tip: Buy a container that fits your canopies... It makes sense to ask for actual users opinions. My first rig was J3K with PDR-160 and Spectre-170(sizing done by Sunpath). Based on my experience, for this canopy combinatin J2K would be a much better choice. Javelins seem to be quite loose. 7 cells pack smaller. https://www.facebook.com/1skydive/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #16 March 23, 2006 Over-stuffed Javelins are exactly why you see so many videos with the main pin cover flapping in the wind... that and people failing to replace the stiffner on the tuck-tab... no thanks... Remember humidity and canopy design will cause pack volumes to vary quite a bit as well.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinghonu 0 #17 March 23, 2006 QuoteRig size will not prevent a proper arch, i.e. pushing your hips forward. Maybe if the harness is too small, but not too big... The military routinely uses huge containers with 370+sq ft canopies. I've also seen people of your size jump containers that hold 253s and 260s... they all seemed to be able to arch and turn points just fine and they didn't have any more jumps than you. Yeah, my first jumps were on Mantas and I arched/turned fine too but it was like a freakin' elephant pushing down on my hips. All the containers I have rented have had adequate fitting harnesses but the container itself was so large/long that the main tray area would sit nicely on my ass. When arching & pushing my hips forward it causes your back to no-longer be in a straight line with your hips. Being that the rig is attached to your shoulders/back as well, it causes the bottom portion of the rig to push down on your ass. For most jumpers the main tray seems to sit slightly above the ass or in the small of the back minimizing if not completely eliminating this problem. Does that make sense or is my arch all fucked up? "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #18 March 23, 2006 QuoteQuoteSorry if I sounded rude, I still haven't got an answer for myself with regards to the manufacturers suggestions I believe that it's worth hearing riggers opinions as well... Thanks everyone What kind of answer are you looking for, one that would go against the "manufactures suggestions"? Since they are the ones that design and build the product they probably will provide you with the best answer. And that is a riggers opinion. Sparky Well, it is interesting to do research outside of the manufacturers suggestions to see how the "general skydiving population" is using various products. Good, bad or otherwise, you'll probably find that on average folks are flying ZP at a higher wingloading then manufacturer recommendations. Good, bad or otherwise, that's the way it is and it is information to have to be, well, informed. However, what Sparky may be pointing out and what I do believe is sometimes some of us in the skydiving verse take this as "the answer they want to hear" for what ever reason... which, whether it has to do with skydiving or anything else in life really, going with the "answer you want to hear" can bite you if you don't then balance it with the consequences of going with that decission. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #19 March 23, 2006 Quote Yeah, my first jumps were on Mantas and I arched/turned fine too but it was like a freakin' elephant pushing down on my hips. All the containers I have rented have had adequate fitting harnesses but the container itself was so large/long that the main tray area would sit nicely on my ass. When arching & pushing my hips forward it causes your back to no-longer be in a straight line with your hips. Being that the rig is attached to your shoulders/back as well, it causes the bottom portion of the rig to push down on your ass. For most jumpers the main tray seems to sit slightly above the ass or in the small of the back minimizing if not completely eliminating this problem. Does that make sense or is my arch all fucked up? No arguement that big student rigs can sometimes "fly the student" even if the student is an average sized person, let alone if they're a smaller person. However, at the same time I hope I wouldn't get an arguement that part of the reason we put students out on big canopies (thus, big containers required) is to maximize the "safety margin" or "amount of forgiveness" for the student learning canopy piloting. Its kinda like when you're out to teach a person to drive a car... which would you do... A) Take them out in mom's station wagon to a big empty mall parking lot on a Sunday and let them get an introduction to driving a car taking it around the parking lot a few times... OR... B) Take them out in a zippy sports car to the top of a freeway entrance ramp right at Monday morning rush hour and turn them loose on the freeway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gdmusumeci 0 #20 March 24, 2006 Maybe this is a little bit of a strange question, but you're talking about using a PD193 main (0.9:1) and a 150 reserve (1.16:1). These are going to fly pretty differently! If you don't mind my asking, what factors have led you to picking these canopy sizes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #21 March 24, 2006 Quotewhat Sparky may be pointing out and what I do believe is sometimes some of us in the skydiving verse take this as "the answer they want to hear" for what ever reason... My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinghonu 0 #22 March 24, 2006 Quote No arguement that big student rigs can sometimes "fly the student" even if the student is an average sized person, let alone if they're a smaller person. However, at the same time I hope I wouldn't get an arguement that part of the reason we put students out on big canopies (thus, big containers required) is to maximize the "safety margin" or "amount of forgiveness" for the student learning canopy piloting. No. I was simply stating the reason why some jumpers try to "cram" larger canopies into smaller containers. For me, I wanted the best fitting container I could get knowing that I would eventually downsize at least once. The container was made for a 150 and I put a 175 in it so I could fly w/ something not only safe in freefall but that would also allow me the right size canopy at the time even if it meant that the container (which was used) may wear quicker. I was more concerned about a correctly fitting container and a safe sized main than about possible premature wear on the container (which I will eventually get rid of). Make sense? "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #23 March 24, 2006 ... well, sorry I missed your point, my bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggergreg 0 #24 March 24, 2006 I just don't understand why someone would jump a reserve that is smaller than what they are comfortable jumping as a main. In a reserve situation, conditions are usually less than ideal :re: low opening, off spot, mind racing, injury, etc. I'll grow into it, Hopefully, I'll never have to use it, But, It's always like new, are all reasons I've heard for this. Think about the worst possible scenario, and size your reserve accordingly...JMHO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #25 March 26, 2006 QuoteI just don't understand why someone would jump a reserve that is smaller than what they are comfortable jumping as a main. In a reserve situation, conditions are usually less than ideal :re: low opening, off spot, mind racing, injury, etc. I'll grow into it, Hopefully, I'll never have to use it, But, It's always like new, are all reasons I've heard for this. Think about the worst possible scenario, and size your reserve accordingly...JMHO What? Rob, you don't keep a written list of the folks you hear such things from to compare with the "Incidents" forum here and in Parchutist?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
