Any Mamba updates?

[YISkyDive 0]

I have been watching all the previous threads- but I was wondering if anyone outside of areodyne has gotten a chance to jump one.

Im very intrested in this canopy and not that I dont trust areodyne and areodyne related people, im just intrested in a review by an outside party.

Thanks,

Dave.

[damion75 0]

Hey dude!

They had the demos at the Empuria Xmas Boogie - I didn't jump one because I am not ready for a such a high performance canopy (built to complete with the Katana) yet. Not to mention they only had the 114 and 107 there.

If your profile is correct I would recommend waiting a while to fly something like the Mamba

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[YISkyDive 0]

Thanks- Im just intrested in the parachute. Thats all. Not trying to be rude to any areodyne person/ employee/ so on.. but ultimitely I wanted to know if it was a VisionII or an actual canopy. I love my Diablo but I saw two people with visions that well.. lets leave it at that.

[darnknit 0]

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but I saw two people with visions that well.. lets leave it at that.

please don't leave it at that, i would love to hear about what you saw. i jump one, so if i am having a problem with my main that i am unable to detect, but that you have been able to pick up on by watching i want to know.

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but ultimitely I wanted to know if it was a VisionII or an actual canopy.

i can understand that, everyone knows the whole debacle PD faced when they released the sabre2. if i remember correctly the concensus on this forum was that the sabre2 was not a semi-elliptical nine cell, but was actually nothing more than a sack full of anvils.

blue stuff,
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[YISkyDive 0]

I saw the vision with the 'second' lineset that had the most unreal openings ever. The videos where intense.

I guess the other vision that I saw had the 'third' lineset. Just watching it it land- it was very 'mushy.' The demoer and the owner where both just displeased with it.

Im a supporter of areodyne.. more so than many I know- but that canopy just let me down? Im not calling it out- I just hope the mamba doenst have those problems, or similar.

Ultimitely, I am looking at getting a 149 Mamba, 149Xfire2 Or a 150Nitro. I do about 350 jumps a season (March to Novemeber) so my order would be done in May when I have 400 jumps.

I've jumped both the nitro and the Xfire under demos- I just want to know about the Mamba.

[GQ_jumper 4]

I've talked to a few people who have all said that the mamba is completely different than the vision. Just look at the quality of canopy they came out with when they introduced the pilot, and imagine that kind of quality in an elliptical 9 cell.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[dgskydive 0]

The Mamba is not a Vision 2!!!!

The I acutally jumped a Vision for two seasons before I worked for Aerodyne. I had to send it back for a different line set and it did fine after that.

The Mamba is a completly different wing!

I very nice on if I do say so.

Ask Aggiedave he has jumped one.

Dom

[tso-d_chris 0]

First, demo before you buy. Nothing you read in a review or an advertisement can compare to what you can learn by actually jumping the canopy.

Second, I would highly discourage going from a low aspect ratio canopy to a high aspect ratio canopy and downsizing simultaneously. You will find a large performance increase without the downsize. This would, of course, preclude all the canopies you are considering, except the Crossfire2. However, the Sabre2, Safire2, Lotus and Pilot are all likely to outperform your Diablo at similar loadings.

IMO jumpers are over eager to downsize. The best swoopers I know put several hundred jumps on large canopies before moving on to smaller stuff, which was still big by todays standards. Having a tiny canopy does not equate to having the skills to fly it.

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[Brains 2]

Dom,
Any plans to have a demo or two at Pyro vixen?? I understand you guys are not sending out demo's yet so i hope to catch you at a boogie somewhere. I am VERY interested to find my next wing.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[dragon2 0]

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going from a low aspect ratio canopy to a high aspect ratio canopy

Funny thing is, that the Mamba is NOT a high aspect ratio canopy at all. I attended a seminar by Aerodyne about the Mamba Don't recall the numbers but it almost looked like a very elliptical and 9cell version of my spectre

Still of course it's not a good idea to downsize and go to a more aggressive canopy at the same time.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[nicknitro71 0]

You got your numbers wrong

The Mamba has a 2.7 AR, the Spectre 2.14, big difference!

Memento Audere Semper

903

[dragon2 0]

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You got your numbers wrong

The Mamba has a 2.7 AR, the Spectre 2.14, big difference!

OK add two cells to my Spectre then I mean, it's AR is lower than most HP canopies. They didn't go for a high AR at all, because, according to Aerodyne, they wanted less drag.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[nicknitro71 0]

Actually it is a pretty high AR to skydiving standards.

The Velocity for instance has a AR of 2.69, the VX 2.73, and the Stiletto 2.68 as a line of comparison.

As for drag the higher the AR the less the parasitic drag, not the other way around. Unfortunately in skidiving going over 3 is a bitch at this point in time due to opening "issues".

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Elisha 1]

(Disclaimer: I don't know anything and probably shouldn't even be reading this thread yet.)

Someone here posted recently that the initial Vision release (I think I started the thread - duh!) was WAY premature and gave it a bad rap, but after it was corrected, it is a good canopy. The point? IT IS NOW A GOOD CANOPY. I'm pretty sure Dom brought some to the Byron Boogie last fall, so I'm sure they were good Visions.

[mark 105]

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As for drag the higher the AR the less the parasitic drag.

I think you meant to say that there was less (lift-)induced drag with higher aspect ratios. If higher aspect ratios require more lines, their parasite drag increases. As with many things aerodynamic, there's a trade-off.

Mark

[dragon2 0]

Huh got taken in by a marketing speech

My notes from the seminar say: "we chose a low aspect ratio, because of less drag". But it has about the same AR as a vengeance, katana etc.

Should've checked

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[nicknitro71 0]

I stand corrected, induced

As for parasitic drag and lines...HMA if drag is really a problem, then RDS, sew-in risers, spandex...I was told that a really close shave can give a pilot 1 extra foot on the swoop

The Mamba comes with HMA but unlike PA's canopies, they are cascaded.

I would love to see data on let's say two identical velos or so, flown by the same pilot, one with thin cascaded HMA and the other with thick Dacron lines!

Memento Audere Semper

903

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I stand corrected, induced

Isn't induced drag the horizontal component of the Total Aerodynamic Force? In the case of sport canopies, this is actually induced thrust, since they are trimmed to angle down towards the ground a bit, and the horizontal component of that force is positive in the forward direction.

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[nicknitro71 0]

It's my understanding that there are basically two forms of drag, parasitic and induced (both have multiple components).

Parasitic AKA parasite drag is due to skin friction, lines, wrinkles, the pilot...the induced drag is associated with the production of lift. The latter is mainly present in the form of vortices at the trailing edge and wing-tips.

You are right Chris, induced drag IS the horizontal vector between the lift vector and the "lifting ability" vector but it's direction opposes thrust.

I understand that given two canopies with all things being equal including trim, pilot, WL, and parasite drag, the one with higher AR will produce more lift due to less induced drag.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[tso-d_chris 0]

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It's my understanding that there are basically two forms of drag, parasitic and induced (both have multiple components).

Parasitic AKA parasite drag is due to skin friction, lines, wrinkles, the pilot...the induced drag is associated with the production of lift. The latter is mainly present in the form of vortices at the trailing edge and wing-tips.

You are right Chris, induced drag IS the horizontal vector between the lift vector and the "lifting ability" vector but it's direction opposes thrust.

I understand that given two canopies with all things being equal including trim, pilot, WL, and parasite drag, the one with higher AR will produce more lift due to less induced drag.

I have heard it broken down into three types of drag, instead of two, which accounts for the discrepancy. Those are parasitic drag, which would be lines, jumper, PC, d-bag, bridle, etc; induced drag, which is the horizontal component of the lifting force (thrust on a canopy! ), and profile drag, which is the drag associated with the actual airfoil due to frontal surface area, viscosity of the air and the associated friction along the skin of the airfoil, etc.

I didn't get the terms from a Fluid Dynamics class, though, just personal research. They could be incorrect.

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[dgskydive 0]

I was hoping to get to Sebastian for that Boogie as well, but I think they are sending to me to Xkeys that weekend. I will let ya know if I am going to be in Sebastian then.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Chris,

he and I have already pmd and come to the conclusion that the Mamba is not the canooy for him at this time

Dom

[EAerodyne 0]

To Clarify the difference between the Vision and the Mamba.

When I joined Aerodyne from PD in Oct 2003. They had some products that I axed due to them not performing within the parameters that i deemed acceptable. The Amax was one of these canopies.

The Vision was an ok canopy, but it had a tendency to stall if not brought in with some decent speed. Something I don't find acceptable however the rest of the canopy's performance was actually quite good. I made some changes to the line sets and have made additional changes since my coming aboard at Aerodyne and I believe the canopy is far better than it was originally.

The Mamba, was designed from scratch with none of the designers who originally designed for Aerodyne (originally from parachutes de france) nor any of the previous test jumpers. This canopy was designed not to compete with either the cross fire or the katana, but was more designed around what i found to be a common wish list amongst experienced jumpers not wanting to own or deal with a cross brace.

Having 17 years of experience of being associated with PD & their canopies as well as their excellent test program. I have started a totally new R&D department at Aerodyne, and besides test jumping myself, have had some excellent feedback from others that I entrust to test jump for me.

My advice is demo one. Only you will know what canopy is best or suits your flying style best. Make sure you don't change canopy model and canopy size at the same time and be safe in trying new canopies.

Kind regards & Blue Skies

[F16Driver 0]

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It's my understanding that there are basically two forms of drag, parasitic and induced (both have multiple components).

Parasitic AKA parasite drag is due to skin friction, lines, wrinkles, the pilot...the induced drag is associated with the production of lift. The latter is mainly present in the form of vortices at the trailing edge and wing-tips.

You are right Chris, induced drag IS the horizontal vector between the lift vector and the "lifting ability" vector but it's direction opposes thrust.

I understand that given two canopies with all things being equal including trim, pilot, WL, and parasite drag, the one with higher AR will produce more lift due to less induced drag.

I have heard it broken down into three types of drag, instead of two, which accounts for the discrepancy. Those are parasitic drag, which would be lines, jumper, PC, d-bag, bridle, etc; induced drag, which is the horizontal component of the lifting force (thrust on a canopy! ), and profile drag, which is the drag associated with the actual airfoil due to frontal surface area, viscosity of the air and the associated friction along the skin of the airfoil, etc.

I didn't get the terms from a Fluid Dynamics class, though, just personal research. They could be incorrect.

It is incorrect. Total Parasitic drag = Form (or Profile) Drag + Skin-friction Drag.

Total drag is made up of Parasitic Drag + Induced Drag.

"I promise, I will never die."

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Total Parasitic drag = Form (or Profile) Drag + Skin-friction Drag.

Total drag is made up of Parasitic Drag + Induced Drag.

The difference is that your parasitic drag includes the drag from the lines, jumper and canopy, while I am considering the drag due to lines and jumper to be different from the drag from the canopy skin.

In parachute applications, I think it is more convenient to separate them, even is it is not "proper."

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