Mike111 0 #1 December 27, 2005 Hey, A while back, i asked about the silhouette, and decided that the canopy or something very similar to it asa first canopy. However the price of a brand new one is way too much, and i havent seen a good deal on one second hand. so i started looking around and came across a rig in for under 600 quid, a falcon 210, tempo 215 resevre, and a TSE container and a cypres. TSE seems great, as its freefly friendly, and ive searched about the falcon on here and got mixed responses, and discovered the tempo is no longer made. Does this seem a good offer, ro would i be better off saving up for a non f-111 canopy and something more up to date? Thanks, Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #2 December 27, 2005 Well, very few of us still jump F-111 mains. Our reasoning is that we like ZP mains, a lot. By the way, how much do you weigh? Finding a good deal on a used just-off-student-status type canopy can take a while, so patience may work out for you here. People have written previously about how they like or do not like the Tempo reserve. I will confine my response to say that I have not deployed one but I am OK with having it be my last chance canopy until I pay the extra money to upgrade to a PD Reserve. (One of my rigs has a PDR, one has a Tempo, and the third is "between reserves" right now.) -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #3 December 27, 2005 i weigh about 11 stone.im currently using 230's and 240's so its not too much smaller Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topper 0 #4 December 27, 2005 At 11stone a 210 would give you wing loading of 0.73 this is even below the UK student ratio recomendations. Obviously speak with your Instructors first but I would say give it a miss, you will get bored with the canopy very quickly. Look for some thing in the 170 range, which will give you a reasonable WL (0.9) but will also be much easier to sell on when you want to. I'm sure I've seen that deal around for a while now so looks like he's having problems selling it, which would also become your problem when you come to sell. topper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #5 December 27, 2005 Did you keep in mind that F-111 main canopies take wingloading differently than ZP canopies? -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #6 December 27, 2005 I don't know what a quid is worth in US dollars so I can't say if 600 quid is a good price for that rig or not. Also it's hard to estimate value without the d.o.m.'s and approximate number of jumps on each item. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #7 December 27, 2005 around $1100 i think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topper 0 #8 December 27, 2005 No, how much different would the loading be ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #9 December 27, 2005 did you mention the # of jumps the falcon has? i didn't read the post that closely. in my short timer status, falcons are all i've jumped and I happen to love them. If they aren't ringed out w/ large jump #'s, and if you're not going to be the world's most prolific jumper, i think a good-condition f-111 canopy will do you fine. just know the thing has a more limited life span than a zp canopy. but when money is a consideration, i'd rather buy what I could afford and get in the air. I think that there's some sort of test you can run on the f-111 fabric to test the porisity to determine it's "life-span" or something. Maybe someone more intelligent than me can chime in on this. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #10 December 27, 2005 It is my understanding that the maximum optimal loading for F-111 mains is around 1:1 (pounds per square feet). This is because of the extra porosity of F-111, especially after a hundred jumps. This contrasts strongly with loading of ZP mains, which don't leak air throughout their fabric while flying as a matter of course, even after several hundred jumps. These canopies can be designed to fly well at low wingloadings like F-111 mains and/or can be designed to fly well at higher wingloadings - 1:1 to even as high as 2:1. (Technically they can be designed to fly and [maybe] land well with wingloadings far above 2:1, but the human skill and reflex components tend to limit the wingloading before then. So, telling anyone they should try to load a main at around .9:1 or so as a starting point, when that person has previously been considering getting an F-111 main, may not be the best for them. And saying that being at .7:1 on a main (again, considering the ZP vs. F-111 issue at hand) is too light may also be wrong. Unfortunately, I don't know what the "happy parameters" are for F-111 mains. I only know they like being loaded more lightly, and I assume their geometry accounts for proper/safe inflation at significantly lighter minimum wingloadings than some ZP canopies. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #11 December 28, 2005 cheers, im guessing it wouldn't have much left becuase its £600 for a complete rig, implying its old. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #12 December 28, 2005 Quotecheers, im guessing it wouldn't have much left becuase its £600 for a complete rig, implying its old. well, if it's a ragged-out canopy, you'll be working our arse off for a good flare, esp. on hot, windless days. best to move on, I guess. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre1Lucke 0 #13 December 29, 2005 I started with a Talon rig with a Tempo 150 reserve and a Falcon 195 main canopy. This main canopy had several hundred jumps (+/-800)but it was still flying very fine. Great bottom end flair and also very responsive on toggle turns for a canopy in that size. also the openings were very nice. the reserve was 12 years old but never used. It was the perfect canopy to start and certainly for the money I paid for it. Afterwards I sold the complete set and the person who bought it is still flying it and it is still a great canopy. (better then the PD 190) I loaded that canopy at 1.02 (198 lbs) If you want to know how to load that canopy, take a look at this site: http://parachuteshop.com/falcon_main_canopy.htm Hope this helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #14 December 29, 2005 thast reassuring... thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites