What would happen?

[MB38 0]

What would happen if somebody downsized their canopy too dramatically? I'm not planning on doing this or anything, I'm just curious to see what the differences would be.

My exit weight's 195lbs and I'm a student on a 230 Solo. What would happen if somebody used to that kind of flying found themselves under a 200? Or a 170? Or some tiny little elliptical? Would it simply be a change in how severe the canopy turns... and how it responds to weight shift... and whatnot? Would it be a dramatic change in glide ratio? Would the flare be different considering the nature of these tiny little canopies?

Basically, I'm just curious to know what the differences would be. It's going from a school bus to a sports car... but what makes it a sports car?

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[Frenchy68 0]

Much faster reaction to toggles/risers input (which means, among other things, faster loss of altitude). Which is fine when having the situation under control, but:

a/ look at the incident thread (as I am sure you already have many times).
b/ in my extremely limited experience, one aspect of landing that is overly overlooked when people do downsize is the "oh! fuck me!" landing. Downwind in someone's backyard, crosswind in a vineyard, etc... Standing up 100 landings in a row does not mean one have full control of a canopy. I realize that pretty much every time I jump.
In any case, BillVon's list is a good indicator of what one should be able to do before downsizing.
Once again, from an extremely limited experience.

Be safe.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[slotperfect 7]

This article by John LeBlanc of PD on wing loading is a great place for you to start getting your questions answered. There are some other on this page that would benefit you as well.

Of course, you can only learn so much about skydiving from reading, so I strongly urge you to share what you have learned from your reading with your Instructors so they can help you apply what you have learned to your own canopy flight and landing performance.

When I was a very young jumper, I got some very sound advice - "Don't be in a hurry. Get very good at the basics before moving on to more complex and difficult tasks." Both of those men, Carl Sanchez and Eddy Lopez, kept me from making some very poor decision based on my own ego and cool factor.

You have started a very good progression for yourself - asking good questions so that you can decide for yourself. I have said this numerous times before in other conversations - skydivers have to gather information from many different sources, then process it and make an informed decision. For you, your Instructors are critical in this decision making process, because they know how well you fly and land your current parachute, and how quickly you learn new skills.

When you have finished your student training, I highly recommend you take a Basic Canopy Piloting Course such as this one taught by Scott Miller at different DZs around the country.

Arrive Safely

John

[MB38 0]

I do appreciate the links and the posts... quite helpful. I just want to restate that I'm not planning on downsizing canopies just yet... and I'm certainly not going to do so dramatically. I was just trying to figure out what the "sports car" nature of these canopies stems from.

Got some reading to do.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[hookitt 0]

Downsizing a size or 2 would get your attention but
downsizing to some tiny elliptical with out being prepared....and sometimes even when you think you are.....

You'd open the canopy at a high altitude, say 11,000 feet and think to yourself, "Wow... this is really fast" Then you'd take the toggles in your hands and clear the brakes. and think... "Wow... this is much faster"

Then you would pull the toggle down past your shoulder to see how it turns, and say to yourself, "You've got to be kidding me" which is likely coupled with a feeling of terror. The desire to cutaway and go to a much more sensible canopy will cross your mind.

If you're used to pulling the toggle down to your waist to make a turn, and you do it on this one, you'll find out very quickly as you're attemting to kick out of the most radical and sudden lines twists you've ever encountered that that much input wan't necessarry.

There may be a point where "Just let me live... I won't do this again" will come to the forefront of your mind.

4000 feet will come around and the thought of cutting away is still there. You may have determined that you can land it if you're very careful, or you fly over the DZ and hope the reserve is a better choice.

That's the condensed version.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[GravityGirl 0]

Much less decision time in the pattern. Instead of 7 - 10 minutes to decide how to join the pattern, which direction to land, where to put it down, traffic considerations, etc. You will have 3 - 5 minutes.

Times are not exact, but you see the point. These decisions are largely based on experience.

Then there is the ground hazard. The smaller canopy is much more responsive to toggle input. An avoidence turn can easily drive you into the ground with the more reponsive canopy. If you are equating it to race cars, remember you don't have any steel between you and the ground. We take 100% of our impacts with our flesh and blood.

Another common error for low time jumpers on small parachutes is when you get a side gust of wind on landing. If you get pushed from the side an reach to brace your fall (instead of countering the turn), you'll turn yourself into the ground quite hard.

The idea is to go through each learning curve with the proper tools to keep you in good shape. This way you can become a great canopy pilot!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[MB38 0]

Quote

Downsizing a size or 2 would get your attention but
downsizing to some tiny elliptical with out being prepared....and sometimes even when you think you are.....

You'd open the canopy at a high altitude, say 11,000 feet and think to yourself, "Wow... this is really fast" Then you'd take the toggles in your hands and clear the brakes. and think... "Wow... this is much faster"

Then you would pull the toggle down past your shoulder to see how it turns, and say to yourself, "You've got to be kidding me" which is likely coupled with a feeling of terror. The desire to cutaway and go to a much more sensible canopy will cross your mind.

If you're used to pulling the toggle down to your waist to make a turn, and you do it on this one, you'll find out very quickly as you're attemting to kick out of the most radical and sudden lines twists you've ever encountered that that much input wan't necessarry.

There may be a point where "Just let me live... I won't do this again" will come to the forefront of your mind.

4000 feet will come around and the thought of cutting away is still there. You may have determined that you can land it if you're very careful, or you fly over the DZ and hope the reserve is a better choice.

That's the condensed version.

Got it

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Brian Germain's book has a section on wingloading and its effects on a canopy. Check that one too.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower