alan 1 #26 April 21, 2005 QuoteWhy would that be an issue only on the rigs with cut in lats?? Because they changed the way the corner is sewn on the rigs with the cut in lats. QuoteWhat stops the lines catching on the rigs without cutins? The corner is sewn without the "catch". However, as I stated in a previous reply to someone else, it is really a minor packing issue. It can happen on a variety of rigs, even if the corner is sewn properly, without a catch. All the mod does is remind the packer to not wrap the excess suspension around the bottom of the reserve pack tray by making it more difficult. The risers and lines should be routed down the sides of the main pack tray with the excess lines stowed in the bottom of the main pack tray. This is often an overlooked cause for line twists, off heading openings, and spinning mals.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #27 April 21, 2005 Quote???????????????? I have repaired Talons and Sidewinders that suffered that damage. Also seen Vectors and Javelins with their reserve containers half torn off!!! None of the torn rigs had hip rings. It has nothing to do with hip rings other than in the case of the new Wings with the cut in lats, they have the corner sewn in such a way as to create a catch. As you have pointed out, it can and has happened on other rigs already, rigs that don't have a similar catch sewn into the corner! It is mostly a packing issue, I know the old RI manuals are specific about routing the risers and lines down the sides of the main pack tray and not wrapping them under. You maybe helped write those manuals. At any rate, a rig with a "catch" sewn into that corner is seriously flawed. A SB would be nice before an incident. Just my opinion. Hee, Hee, Heealan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BBKid 0 #28 April 22, 2005 I remember when someone first posted a picture of their Wings with the "catch" in the lower reserve tray. I remember thinking then, and nobody seems to know yet why did Sunrise build this into their container? I admit, I know nothing about rigging, and even less about harness construction techniques, but why on earth would cut in laterals make it necessary to stop sewing 1/2 inch from the end of the reserve tray? Anyone? Anyone? Nick --------------------------- "I've pierced my foot on a spike!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflajankie 0 #29 April 22, 2005 Hey all, First off since a lot of people where concerned about the corners and lines gettin cought there, we changed the design. They all look the same, if the rig has cut in laterals or no cut ins, there is no catch what so ever anymore. So there is no need to worry! Just skydive and be happySkydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks... And that's why I don't skydive anymore! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #30 April 22, 2005 Quote First off since a lot of people where concerned about the corners and lines gettin cought there, we changed the design. They all look the same, if the rig has cut in laterals or no cut ins, there is no catch what so ever anymore. When was the change made? I have to say, the part in the manual about packing so not to rip out the reserve tray caught my attention. For that and a couple other reasons, I want to spend some time with a packer reviewing what I've forgotten since my one pack job last summer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #31 April 23, 2005 QuoteI remember when someone first posted a picture of their Wings with the "catch" in the lower reserve tray. I remember thinking then, and nobody seems to know yet why did Sunrise build this into their container? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe because most of their predecessors built reserve corners that way. At least two dozen other manufacturers still sew reserve corners that way. It is a question of how close you can get a sewing machine to the corner. No one wants to sew corners that look like that, but few designers have figured out better methods (Aerodyne, Troy Loney, Henry Pullyourlinen, Al MacDonald, and the guys at Parachutes de France). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ojibwe 0 #32 April 25, 2005 very comfortable rigMB 3864 Urantia Book and RUSH fan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bart13 0 #33 April 27, 2005 Just wondering why you recommend having a wings dealer take my measurements......I was going to have one of my instructors at the DZ do it......also how would I find the nearest dealer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nicknitro71 0 #34 April 27, 2005 Hi Ankie, Is there a cost to retrofit the mod? I looked at my EXT and there is a gap at the corners of the reserve tray. I do not want to do it myself because it has to do with a reserve part. Thanks!Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #35 April 27, 2005 QuoteJust wondering why you recommend having a wings dealer take my measurements......I was going to have one of my instructors at the DZ do it......also how would I find the nearest dealer? I suggest having a dealer do it because they know the rig and have done lots of measurements for that rig. An example that happened to me. I'm a dealer for Bev Suits, and there are some tricks that I've learned over the years in taking measurements for jumpsuits that allow a better fit for the customer. The Wings dealer has learned the same. Also having a dealer to work with gives you more insight to the rig. Like, what if there was a problem when it arrives? The dealer will then take over and contact Wings and let them know what needs to be done to make it right. Contact Ankie Berry and she'll treat you right.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #36 April 27, 2005 QuoteHi Ankie, Is there a cost to retrofit the mod? I looked at my EXT and there is a gap at the corners of the reserve tray. I do not want to do it myself because it has to do with a reserve part. Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a small cost to having the upgrade done at the factory. Also remember that the factory will only mail upgrade parts to a few trusted Master Riggers, so the simple answer is mailing your rig to the factory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #37 May 1, 2005 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I remember when someone first posted a picture of their Wings with the "catch" in the lower reserve tray. I remember thinking then, and nobody seems to know yet why did Sunrise build this into their container? QuoteMaybe because most of their predecessors built reserve corners that way. ???? But the prior version of the Wings that did not have the cut in lats wasn't built that way. The pack tray/corner was sewn with no catch. QuoteAt least two dozen other manufacturers still sew reserve corners that way. I'm only familiar with gear made in the US. The Javelins, Vectors, Talons, Mirages, Infinities, Racers, Dolphins, and earlier Wings I've packed that were made in the last ten years didn't have a similar catch. The Icon I looked at didn't have it either, but did have the line guides. I have trouble believing it is as common place as you make it sound. As stated in a previous post, Wings has corrected it on all current rigs.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #38 May 2, 2005 Talons and Javelins have small "catches" in the lower corners of the reserve container. It is a function of the stitch pattern and how close you can sew to the corner. New Javeoins (circa 2005) use radically different side flaps to alleviate riser snagging. Vector 1 and 2 avoid this problem with a vastly different stitch pattern, but that stitch pattern creates other problems. Vector 3 wraps the side flaps all the way around the pack tray to prevent riser snags. Racer uses a stitch pattern vaguely reminiscent of Vector 1 and 2. Newer Mirages avoid that problem by sewing small pieces of Type 1 tape to outside of the lower corners of the reserve container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #39 May 9, 2005 I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or argueing. You say at least two dozen manufacrurers still build rigs with the catch in the corner. I mention the rigs I am familiar with, most major manufacturers currently in the US, and point by point you seem to agree with the exception of Talons and pre 2005 Javelins. QuoteTalons and Javelins have small "catches" in the lower corners of the reserve container. It is a function of the stitch pattern and how close you can sew to the corner. I know you worked for RI and are very familiar with the Talon, but I am an experienced senior rigger and I have 3 Talons and one Voodo sitting in front of me. DOMs range from 1996 to 2000 and I used to own two other Talons of the '87 to '89 vintage. None of them have even the slightest catch and that includes the 4 I am looking at right now. Nothing that in my wildest dreams that could even remotely be compared to the catch on the Wings that I had the customer send back to the manufacturer. And if the catch was on the Wings as you say because that is the way their predecessors did it, then why wasn't it on the Wings versions without the cut in lats? I don't have any Javs in front of me right now so I won't call BS on you for them, but I'll check at the DZ next time over.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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ojibwe 0 #32 April 25, 2005 very comfortable rigMB 3864 Urantia Book and RUSH fan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bart13 0 #33 April 27, 2005 Just wondering why you recommend having a wings dealer take my measurements......I was going to have one of my instructors at the DZ do it......also how would I find the nearest dealer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #34 April 27, 2005 Hi Ankie, Is there a cost to retrofit the mod? I looked at my EXT and there is a gap at the corners of the reserve tray. I do not want to do it myself because it has to do with a reserve part. Thanks!Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #35 April 27, 2005 QuoteJust wondering why you recommend having a wings dealer take my measurements......I was going to have one of my instructors at the DZ do it......also how would I find the nearest dealer? I suggest having a dealer do it because they know the rig and have done lots of measurements for that rig. An example that happened to me. I'm a dealer for Bev Suits, and there are some tricks that I've learned over the years in taking measurements for jumpsuits that allow a better fit for the customer. The Wings dealer has learned the same. Also having a dealer to work with gives you more insight to the rig. Like, what if there was a problem when it arrives? The dealer will then take over and contact Wings and let them know what needs to be done to make it right. Contact Ankie Berry and she'll treat you right.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #36 April 27, 2005 QuoteHi Ankie, Is there a cost to retrofit the mod? I looked at my EXT and there is a gap at the corners of the reserve tray. I do not want to do it myself because it has to do with a reserve part. Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a small cost to having the upgrade done at the factory. Also remember that the factory will only mail upgrade parts to a few trusted Master Riggers, so the simple answer is mailing your rig to the factory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #37 May 1, 2005 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I remember when someone first posted a picture of their Wings with the "catch" in the lower reserve tray. I remember thinking then, and nobody seems to know yet why did Sunrise build this into their container? QuoteMaybe because most of their predecessors built reserve corners that way. ???? But the prior version of the Wings that did not have the cut in lats wasn't built that way. The pack tray/corner was sewn with no catch. QuoteAt least two dozen other manufacturers still sew reserve corners that way. I'm only familiar with gear made in the US. The Javelins, Vectors, Talons, Mirages, Infinities, Racers, Dolphins, and earlier Wings I've packed that were made in the last ten years didn't have a similar catch. The Icon I looked at didn't have it either, but did have the line guides. I have trouble believing it is as common place as you make it sound. As stated in a previous post, Wings has corrected it on all current rigs.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #38 May 2, 2005 Talons and Javelins have small "catches" in the lower corners of the reserve container. It is a function of the stitch pattern and how close you can sew to the corner. New Javeoins (circa 2005) use radically different side flaps to alleviate riser snagging. Vector 1 and 2 avoid this problem with a vastly different stitch pattern, but that stitch pattern creates other problems. Vector 3 wraps the side flaps all the way around the pack tray to prevent riser snags. Racer uses a stitch pattern vaguely reminiscent of Vector 1 and 2. Newer Mirages avoid that problem by sewing small pieces of Type 1 tape to outside of the lower corners of the reserve container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #39 May 9, 2005 I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or argueing. You say at least two dozen manufacrurers still build rigs with the catch in the corner. I mention the rigs I am familiar with, most major manufacturers currently in the US, and point by point you seem to agree with the exception of Talons and pre 2005 Javelins. QuoteTalons and Javelins have small "catches" in the lower corners of the reserve container. It is a function of the stitch pattern and how close you can sew to the corner. I know you worked for RI and are very familiar with the Talon, but I am an experienced senior rigger and I have 3 Talons and one Voodo sitting in front of me. DOMs range from 1996 to 2000 and I used to own two other Talons of the '87 to '89 vintage. None of them have even the slightest catch and that includes the 4 I am looking at right now. Nothing that in my wildest dreams that could even remotely be compared to the catch on the Wings that I had the customer send back to the manufacturer. And if the catch was on the Wings as you say because that is the way their predecessors did it, then why wasn't it on the Wings versions without the cut in lats? I don't have any Javs in front of me right now so I won't call BS on you for them, but I'll check at the DZ next time over.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
